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  #21  
Old 11-21-2005, 06:20 PM
Jedster Jedster is offline
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Default Re: The Vice President of Torture

It's very very atypical that former CIA directors or other major officials will criticize a sitting presient or vice president.

So I think OP was just trying to show that it's remarkable that very senior former officials are going on the record to take on the administration.

As I read it, his point was less that you should believe what Turner had to say and more that Cheney has so little credibility that former CIA directors were willing to accuse him of being VPs for torture. Incidentally, i think Turner meant more that Cheney was in favor of torture, rather than that he was the VP or torture.

Regardless, what Cheney is doing now is laughable. The problem these nuts have is that they think they have a PR or political problem when really what they have is a policy problem.

If they spent less time trying to argue that Democrats were the cause of all the world's problems and more time fighting terrorism and trying to end the Iraq War on positive terms, we'd all be better off.
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  #22  
Old 11-21-2005, 06:32 PM
Myrtle Myrtle is offline
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Default Re: The Vice President of Torture

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Classic. There are just too many lies, so you blame the left for making it too confusing to track.

[/ QUOTE ]
No, it's like if I said every time someone was killed it was a Holocaust, the meaning of the word would diminish to a shadow of it's former meaning. If the Left were more selective of what they called "the Big Lie", maybe they'd be doing better in elections...

[ QUOTE ]
Follow that party line --- it's always right.

[/ QUOTE ]
I liked this part, especially since I've done nothing but float away from the party line since I arrived in college. Oh well, wouldn't be the first time I've been stereotyped by a lefty.

[/ QUOTE ]

You know what? Why don't you just say 'to hell' with college, enlist and volunteer for duty in Iraq?

Get out there into the 'real world' and find out 'Up close & personal' how your nice, neat chickenhawk POV works.
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  #23  
Old 11-21-2005, 06:46 PM
BCPVP BCPVP is offline
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Default Re: The Vice President of Torture

[ QUOTE ]
It's very very atypical that former CIA directors or other major officials will criticize a sitting presient or vice president.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think this has more to do with the political climate. The precedent has already been broken by Carter and Clinton so it's not like Turner's in unchartered terroritory.

[ QUOTE ]
Incidentally, i think Turner meant more that Cheney was in favor of torture, rather than that he was the VP or torture.

[/ QUOTE ]
Turner said exactly that; that Cheney advocates torture. I posted the quote. And if, as you said before (and my sarcasm detector is fritzy so I'm not sure how serious you were being), you don't necessarily agree that torture should be banned, you must also be advocating torture, according to Turner's logic. If this is the logic the man is using, why should anyone care what he says?

[ QUOTE ]
Regardless, what Cheney is doing now is laughable. The problem these nuts have is that they think they have a PR or political problem when really what they have is a policy problem.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think they have all three, but that could just be me.

[ QUOTE ]
If they spent less time trying to argue that Democrats were the cause of all the world's problems and more time fighting terrorism and trying to end the Iraq War on positive terms, we'd all be better off.

[/ QUOTE ]
You realize I could switch Democrats and they (the administration) and the sentence would still be applicable, right? You're engaging in exactly the behavior you're condemning the Bush admin of.
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  #24  
Old 11-21-2005, 06:47 PM
BCPVP BCPVP is offline
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Location: Whitewater, WI
Posts: 830
Default Re: The Vice President of Torture

[ QUOTE ]
You know what? Why don't you just say 'to hell' with college, enlist and volunteer for duty in Iraq?

Get out there into the 'real world' and find out 'Up close & personal' how your nice, neat chickenhawk POV works.

[/ QUOTE ]
[censored] you.
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  #25  
Old 11-21-2005, 06:54 PM
Myrtle Myrtle is offline
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Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 388
Default Re: The Vice President of Torture

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You know what? Why don't you just say 'to hell' with college, enlist and volunteer for duty in Iraq?

Get out there into the 'real world' and find out 'Up close & personal' how your nice, neat chickenhawk POV works.

[/ QUOTE ]
[censored] you.

[/ QUOTE ]

My, my, my.......

It would be so much nicer if you had a more direct way to get that anger out of your system....

.....like in fatigues and full pack with you weapon in hand going house-to-house, room-to-room in search of infidels to annihilate.

Take your bs philosophy and sell it to some other gutless dweeb who believes that they are too good to have to put their money where there mouth is.
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  #26  
Old 11-21-2005, 07:08 PM
BCPVP BCPVP is offline
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Default Re: The Vice President of Torture

I'm sorry if being told by a complete stranger how to live my life makes me a little unpleasant.
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  #27  
Old 11-21-2005, 07:08 PM
Jedster Jedster is offline
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Default Re: The Vice President of Torture

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
If they spent less time trying to argue that Democrats were the cause of all the world's problems and more time fighting terrorism and trying to end the Iraq War on positive terms, we'd all be better off.

[/ QUOTE ]
You realize I could switch Democrats and they (the administration) and the sentence would still be applicable, right? You're engaging in exactly the behavior you're condemning the Bush admin of.

[/ QUOTE ]

Um not really. I'm condemning the Bush Administration for getting us into this debacle in Iraq. I'm condemning them for having no plan to get us out of the war.

The Democrats aren't perfect. A lot of them are useless wimps. But they didn't start this war. And some of them have realized that the time has come to end the war. And that most certainly is not what I'm condemning the Bush Administration for. Clearly, I'd be the last person in the world to condemn Bush for executing a plan to get us out of Iraq.

p.s.: Yes, you understood my view on torture. Probably it makes sense to have a policy against it. But I do think rules were meant to be broken. Jack Bauer is my hero.
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  #28  
Old 11-21-2005, 07:16 PM
BCPVP BCPVP is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2005
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Default Re: The Vice President of Torture

[ QUOTE ]
Um not really. I'm condemning the Bush Administration for getting us into this debacle in Iraq.

[/ QUOTE ]
You were specifically condemning the Bush Admin for spending time arguing that "Democrats were the cause of all the world's problems" and that they should be spending "more time fighting terrorism and trying to end the Iraq War on positive terms". Talk about the pot and the kettle! Both parties as well as the exec branch need to stop with the politiking and work on solving the problems at hand. With both sides acting the way they are, you can't blame one and ignore the other.
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  #29  
Old 11-21-2005, 07:44 PM
Jedster Jedster is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 14
Default Re: The Vice President of Torture

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Um not really. I'm condemning the Bush Administration for getting us into this debacle in Iraq.

[/ QUOTE ]
You were specifically condemning the Bush Admin for spending time arguing that "Democrats were the cause of all the world's problems" and that they should be spending "more time fighting terrorism and trying to end the Iraq War on positive terms". Talk about the pot and the kettle! Both parties as well as the exec branch need to stop with the politiking and work on solving the problems at hand. With both sides acting the way they are, you can't blame one and ignore the other.

[/ QUOTE ]

Whatever. This is not a case of of petty partisan politics. Not a case of a pox on both houses. Bush and his crew started a war that they weren't prepared to win. That's what I'm condemning them for. Yeah, I'm also condemning them for being lying sacks of guano and for wasting time treating their predicament as a political problem.

But the core condemnation is clearly that they got us into a war that they didn't know how to win. And they have no clue on how to get us out.
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  #30  
Old 11-21-2005, 07:50 PM
Myrtle Myrtle is offline
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Posts: 388
Default Re: The Vice President of Torture

[ QUOTE ]
I'm sorry if being told by a complete stranger how to live my life makes me a little unpleasant.

[/ QUOTE ]

Gee....you're a 'little unpleasant'? Are you that removed from reality to understand the impact of that statement on those who have experienced a bit more difficulty that having their lives be a 'little unpleasant'?

On this forum (as on others), you are what you write.

If you're going to take a position, back it up.

Telling me to [censored] off is not the answer.

If you don't like what I have to say about what you wrote, that's just too bad.

Quite frankly I'm just simply sick and tired of folks who are all too willing to so quickly put others in harms way.

If you have the courage of your convictions, get of your ass and put it on the line.

If not, live with your own hypocrisy....but, be aware that there are others who see it for what it is.
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