What's the optimal way for a MTT/STT player to build a bankroll?

[CarlSpackler]

I chose to post this in the MTT forum, because quite frankly, I know a lot more about bankroll management with regards to STT's than with MTT's.

I'm interested in trying to determine the best way for a player to build their bankroll who plays only MTT's and STT's. More specifically, what is the optimal plan to build a bankroll as quickly as possible, with a low risk of ruin. Assume the player's skill level is equal in both STT's and MTT's.

One bankroll building method is to play sng's exclusively. Start at the highest buy-in at which you are both a winning player and have at least 30 buy-ins. We'll call this level A. Continue to play at level A until you reach 30 buy-ins for the next highest buy-in, level B, and then move up. You'll then play at level B until you increase your roll to 30 buy-ins at the next level, C, at which point you'll move up again. If you're losing at level B and your roll falls to 30 buy-ins or less of level A, however, you'll move back down to level A until you build your roll back up to 30 buy-ins of level B.

You repeat this process until you hit the ceiling of your skill level. For example, lets say you are a winning player at level C, but every time you build your roll and move up to level D, you lose and have to drop back down to level C. After repeating this frustrating process 10+ times, it's probably a safe assumption that you have significant leaks which you need to fix to become a winning player at level D. At this point, you stay at level C until you fix your leaks, and then you can try and move up to level D again (with presumably a bigger roll than the 30 buyins to level D).

Or you can just stay at a level where you're a comfortable winner, instead of moving up once you acquire 30 buyins for the next level, and just grind it out there, constantly building your roll.

An alternate bankroll building method would be to play mtt's exclusively. Since there is so much variance in mtt's, however, you would obviously need a lot more buyins as compared to playing sng's only (I don't know how many.... 50? 100?). If you hit a big score early on, then your roll would grow instantaneously. This would be the biggest advantage to playing mtt's only. But you could play exceptionally well and have a 20+ non-cash streak, due to the major variance of MTT's. That's the big downside.

Another method would be to play STT's at a profitable buyin, build a bankroll well beyond the 30 buyins, and then use these winnings to play MTT's. You would then continue to try and build your roll playing MTT's. If your roll fell back down the 30 STT buyin, you would switch back to playing STT's until you rebuilt your roll to take more shots at the MTT's. Or you could regularly switch back and forth between playing STT's and MTT's, effectively funding your MTT entry fees with your STT profits.

In summary, I think that using the STT's only method would have the lowest risk of ruin (and would probably take the longest to build your bankroll), while the MTT's only method would be the fastest way to build your bankroll (but has the highest risk of ruin). So would some sort of hybrid method, similar to the one I described, be the optimal way to build your roll? This hybrid method would entail you essentially playing STT's to pay for your MTT entry fees? I would love to hear everyone's opinion on this, and any other bankroll building methods different from the ones I described.

[daveymck]

Cash games linked with bonus whoring is the best way to build a bankroll initially imho, starting with the cryptos monthly and working round the other sites a la bonus 101 on the bonus whores site. I put this as you asked for other methods not to be a dick theres a lot of free money out there needs to be considered.

I think some sites let tournaments count towards bonuses but is usually a torturous route.

To break the monotony I would go for a balanced hybrid route with sng's being the bread and butter with shots at smaller buyin mtt's mixed in. If you can multi the sng's then you should see decent growth relatively quickly.

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Cash games linked with bonus whoring is the best way to build a bankroll initially imho, starting with the cryptos monthly and working round the other sites a la bonus 101 on the bonus whores site. I put this as you asked for other methods not to be a dick theres a lot of free money out there needs to be considered.

I think some sites let tournaments count towards bonuses but is usually a torturous route.

To break the monotony I would go for a balanced hybrid route with sng's being the bread and butter with shots at smaller buyin mtt's mixed in. If you can multi the sng's then you should see decent growth relatively quickly.

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I basically used this exact method and pesonally I think it's as close to optimal as you can get.

Multi-tabling STTs for money, MTTs for fun.

[Exitonly]

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I think some sites let tournaments count towards bonuses but is usually a torturous route.

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When stars has their bonuses, you get 100% rake back for touranments. Which is sweet.

[ZeeJustin]

MTT's are terrible for bankroll building. The equivelent of 30 SNG buyins for MTT's will be well over 100. The variance is simply too huge.

Stick to STT's (or bonus whoring if you like that suggestion)

[The Don]

The way I did it was this:

1) Play a ton of $11 SNGs on party.
2) Use some of the profits to play $22-33 MTTs.
3) Make a $1k+ score in one of these and go from there.

Of course, just doing SNGs and moving up in stakes would probably be way easier.

I find winning a major tournament to be a tremendous boost to one's payroll.

Now, to actually do that...

After losing about $500 from January to May this year, I started over with a $400 starting bankroll. I started at the $5 STTs, and as my bankroll increased, moved up to the $10 and eventually the $25s,where I was very successful for a couple months. I gradually built up to $2400 or so over about 4 months when I decided to try the $55s which turned out to pretty tough. I broke even for the next month, and then decided to play MTTs almost exclusively. Fortunately I've had a good run, playing the $3 rebuy and $10 no rebuy on Stars, and have had two final tables with deals when we got down to 3 players. Now I feel like I can afford the $5 rebuy and the $20 no rebuy events.

Granted I was very lucky to reach both final tables, but I don't think I would have finished top three or even made the FT without all the SNGs I played earlier this year. I also think it was useful to play at one STT buyin level until I was certain they were profitable before moving up, at least a couple hundred tourneys. That was a real confidence builder. Winning an MTT makes you feel mostly like you got really lucky even if you played extremely well.

Holdemphile

[locutus2002]

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what is the optimal plan to build a bankroll as quickly as possible, with a low risk of ruin.

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these are mutually exclusive.

Your SNG analogy was interesting, the MTT world is a much messier place. Results vary, and are not a good feedback mechanism (maybe in the long run). Probably hand analysis and consensus among better players is the best feedback mechanism for the quality of your play.

Here is my opinion on fast bankroll building.

Turbo rebuys on stars.

W$ and T$ are fungible on stars. (exchangeable for real $).

These tournaments take the least amount of time (your primary resource) and have about a 7:1++ payout. Very low variance for MTTs. The fields are very soft because only the best and luckiest advance to become the softest part of the bigger tournments. You can unregister from the bigger tournament and use your refunded T$ or W$ to play again.

[TakenItEasy]

Variance is just too huge for bankroll building in MTTs. Consider a 1000 player tournament, you're 100x less likely to get a first and about 6-15x less likely to double up your buy-in, depending on how you set your goals in MTTs.

I had to grind it out in STTs to bankroll my MTT playing. I kept doing this until I had some big wins. Warning, this can take a long time or it can happen right away. That is the point of a huge variance.