I get myself in trouble in a live game with 88

[sweetjazz]

I am dealt 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] in the SB at a live 3/6 game (1/3 blind structure) full of horribly loose players who are a mix of passive and erratically aggressive. Three players limp to the HJ who raises, CO folds, button 3-bets. I call. BB calls (he plays 100% of hands), as do all but one of the limpers. For what it's worth, button has shown down AA before in which he did not raise PF and so his 3-bet does not necessarily mean a big hand. He is one of the erratic aggressive players, someone who thinks about the game but often makes deceptive or erratic plays.

My preflop call is meh in my opinion. Given the high rake (10% up to $4 plus $1 for the BBJ), it's probably a little -EV. Feel free to comment on it if you like, but I think the postflop is more interesting.

Flop comes 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. It is checked around to the button who bets. Should I raise, call, or fold? (FWIW, I suspect that almost everyone at the table will call one or two bets with any piece of the board or a gutshot. Some will call with runner-runner draws or a single overcard.)

Just call the flop bet. You should not checkraise the flop, even if you knew you had the best hand becuz a checkraise will not protect your hand. After the button bets there is 22sb in the pot, if you checkraise everyone will be getting 24-2 to call or 12-1, meaning anyone with any piece, two overcards, or gutshot still has a profitable call. You need to call the flop bet and wait to the turn before you make a move. On the turn assuming you dont hit an eight and the pot is still multiway, you will have two options, check with the intention of folding or check with the intetion of raising(checking and calling is not an option since this wont protect your hand the few times it is best), which action is correct will depend on many variables some of which include the action on the flop, and what the turn card is. Heres a couple examples, if theres just a bunch of calls or folds on the flop, and the turn is a 2,3,6,or 7. I would go for the checkraise since there might be a chance that you have the best hand, and in this large pot, you only need a small chance to make this raise correct. Now if the turn was an Ace, then check and fold.

[B Dids]

Raising seems bad, you're not folding anybody by your own admission, so you're raising for value in a pot where you likely won't win unimproved.

If they're start folding on the turn, call and raise a turn you like?

I don't think anything would be wrong with folding here.

[jason_t]

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I don't think anything would be wrong with folding here.

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He's getting 1000000:1.

[B Dids]

Good point.

Call. Raising is lame.

[BWebb]

Raising is a waste of a SB or more since you aren't getting anyone to fold here and you open yourself up to a 3-bet.

Edited to say call, it's not close.

[jason_t]

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Good point.

Call. Raising is lame.

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It's not that simple.

[BWebb]

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Good point.

Call. Raising is lame.

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It's not that simple.

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It could be a fold if the table is very aggro postflop and there is a chance it gets raised and reraised behind.

[sweetjazz]

In real life, I folded on the flop. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] I won't try to rationalize it. I don't think folding is horrible here, but I do think it's wrong. (Even though there was some nontrivial chance someone would checkraise behind me.)

But let's say I had called instead. (I think calling is better than raising, as I'd like to see a cheap turn card before deciding further where I am going with this hand.)

Turn is the 5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. (So the board reads 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].)

Action starts with me. Do I check or bet?

[jason_t]

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Good point.

Call. Raising is lame.

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It's not that simple.

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It could be a fold if the table is very aggro postflop and there is a chance it gets raised and reraised behind.

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Yeah, that's what I meant by "it's not that simple."