check/call, lead turn line

[kevkev60614]

I'm just curious. How often do y'all use this line? And more importantly, in what situations?

I was reading through an old MTT post that discussed this line. I'm sure it's more common to see/use it over there, cuz the stacks are sometimes deeper. But does anyone use it in a SnG?

To be honest, it doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I suppose if you flop a monster and villain has an overpair, he might raise the turn on this line but fold the turn if you c/c, c/r the turn. But if I put myself in villain's shoes, I don't think I'd raise a turn with only TPTK or an overpair vs. such a show of strength.

If you whiffed and you suspect villain did, why not c/r the flop? If you c/c, lead turn you're giving him a free card?

And I can't see how you'd use this on a draw. If you c/c, he could check the turn behind, giving you your free card. If you lead the turn, you risk getting raised out.

In the original post, there was a lot of talk about controlling pot size. And the example someone (not OP) brought up was calling a pfr w/AJ from the BB.

I should add that the one time I saw this was in a Trout Atlantic game. I was totally befuddled, but ended up correctly laying down my overpair to a set on his river bet.

Thanks a bunch for responses.

[pineapple888]

I use this every once in a while if I sense weakness in the flop bet.

It's the same idea as the stop-and-go: let Villain find monsters under the bed.

It's most effective when a scare card falls on the turn, of course.

I also do it sometimes with a monster, just to create fear, uncertainty, and doubt.

But overall, it doesn't come up too often.

[kevkev60614]

Thanks a bunch for the reply, pineapple. But it does leave me with more questions.

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I use this every once in a while if I sense weakness in the flop bet.

It's the same idea as the stop-and-go: let Villain find monsters under the bed.

It's most effective when a scare card falls on the turn, of course.

[/ QUOTE ]

What I'm getting from this is that the c/c, lead turn line bluff is just a variation of the flop c/r bluff. Does anyone use this and find more success than a standard flop c/r?

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I also do it sometimes with a monster, just to create fear, uncertainty, and doubt.

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I can't fathom why you'd want villain to feel any of those things. I don't think a villain is very likely to call your turn bet unless he would've bet the turn himself and been susceptible to a c/r. So it seems the value of this move when holding a monster is when you feel he's likely to raise your turn bet, which you can reraise.

To summarize: the two uses I see for the c/c, lead turn line are a variation of the flop c/r bluff and a way to extract one more bet on the turn while holding a monster.

I think it's also sometimes used sort of as a blocking bet, but I'm not sure that makes any sense. If I'm on a draw and c/c villain's flop bet, I could lead the turn for less than I think he would bet. But he might've checked behind if I hadn't bet and he might raise now that I have bet.

I'd really like to hear from someone else when and where they encounter and use this line...

Thanks again.

[tigerite]

Yep, I use it quite often.. I haven't the time to explain the nuances of it, but there you go.

[pineapple888]

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I also do it sometimes with a monster, just to create fear, uncertainty, and doubt.

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I can't fathom why you'd want villain to feel any of those things.

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Because villains tend to make big mistakes under those conditions. Plus most people hate FUD and they may get tentative in future hands against me, or avoid me completely. Doyle talks about this some in Super/System.