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#1
11-04-2005, 05:58 AM
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Folding Rivers After Turn Raises
No Reads.
Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx Preflop: Hero is SB with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $5. <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, CO (poster) checks, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero completes, BB checks. Flop: (3 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, CO folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, BB calls. Turn: (4.50 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, Hero calls. River: (8.50 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero ??? Final Pot: 10.50 BB 
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#2
11-04-2005, 06:15 AM
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Re: Folding Rivers After Turn Raises
when I see a hand like this I work backward
going back to the turn, I look at your odds and think you're probably slightly +EV to call there, but the slightly part suggests that maybe you put in too many bets. it's highly unlikely you're good. but going back, I think your flop play has to be right. I don't like calling and donking there. it doesn't do anything that 3-betting the flop doesn't. so it's one of those hands where you're thinking "I must've done something wrong" but you probably didn't. you had a hand you though was best, and you just happened to have 6 outs when you found out it's not. as for the river, I think that's a fold against a 5/10 unknown
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#3
11-04-2005, 06:30 AM
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Re: Folding Rivers After Turn Raises
I disagree. I say you call the river. People make crazy plays against me all the time like this with something like AK or even KJ or 22.
Maybe the way I play inspires people to make these moves on me, but I will often not even donk or 3 bet the flop, as the opponent will often bet every street regardless vs. me.
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#4
11-04-2005, 06:32 AM
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Re: Folding Rivers After Turn Raises
if you want to call the river then I definitely don't like how the rest of the hand played out.
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#5
11-04-2005, 07:47 AM
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Re: Folding Rivers After Turn Raises
Getting 10-1, this board is a crying call with Ace-Big or better.
Not sure how this could go differently (call the flop and donk the turn doesn't make anything different. Possibly call the flop and try for a CR the turn, but I'm not sure this does anything but spew chips when you're behind. Maybe check call the turn but that seems weak for top pair, even on a straight board (you really don't want to give free card to a guy who raised an open ender on the flop). No way this is a fold on the river though, especially against an unknown. AK A3 A6 88 63 T3 are all hands the BB could be playing like this and you have beat.
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#6
11-04-2005, 09:19 AM
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Re: Folding Rivers After Turn Raises
[ QUOTE ]
as for the river, I think that's a fold against a 5/10 unknown [/ QUOTE ] thanks josh. those were all my thoughts exactly. just wanted a sanity check.
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#7
11-04-2005, 09:26 AM
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Re: Folding Rivers After Turn Raises
I think it's a call. Against a limper it's a fold. Against a poster I think you will see a counterfeit T6 or T3 enough to make it profitable.
Krishan
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#8
11-04-2005, 09:42 AM
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Re: Folding Rivers After Turn Raises
[ QUOTE ]
Getting 10-1, this board is a crying call with Ace-Big or better. [/ QUOTE ] Say what? If somehow you managed to get to the river this way with AK, its a very very easy fold. [ QUOTE ] Maybe check call the turn but that seems weak for top pair, even on a straight board (you really don't want to give free card to a guy who raised an open ender on the flop). [/ QUOTE ] So you're 3betting the flop and then checking the turn? Why wouldn't you just call the flop raise instead of 3betting if that's your plan? [ QUOTE ] No way this is a fold on the river though, especially against an unknown. AK A3 A6 88 63 T3 are all hands the BB could be playing like this and you have beat. [/ QUOTE ] I'd need a specific read to think a poster is checking his AK, and then popping both the flop and turn on me with it UI. Ditto for A3 and A6. You're also ahead of T6.
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#9
11-04-2005, 10:00 AM
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Re: Folding Rivers After Turn Raises
The river is a very easy call. You simply can't fold here. You only have to be right 10% of the time to show a long-term profit.
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#10
11-04-2005, 11:06 AM
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Re: Folding Rivers After Turn Raises
[ QUOTE ]
I think it's a call. Against a limper it's a fold. Against a poster I think you will see a counterfeit T6 or T3 enough to make it profitable. Krishan [/ QUOTE ] Krishan, Let me ask you another question. Would you ever consider s n' go on the turn instead of the flop 3 bet, or is the 3bet mandatory?
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