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#11
09-12-2005, 12:17 PM
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Re: Refusing to chop in a mtt -EV?
[ QUOTE ]
People often worry that one of their actions will cause people to start "taking shots at them." My response is, "So?" This applies more to cash games [/ QUOTE ] People coming after you increaes your variance, but also your cEV. Since in a cash game cEV and $EV are the same thing, this is no big deal in a cash game, but high variance is inherently -EV at a tournament final table, so this definitely applies more to tournaments. People don't have to play better against you in a situation like this to wreck your EV, they just have to start playing pots with you out of spite since getting in a confrontation will usually be -EV. Yes, this hurts their EV too, but part of the reason fish are fish is because they act on their emotions and not on correct strategy. Which brings me to my answer to the OP: refusal to chop can be -EV if the tournament is such that not all the bad casual players have been knocked out. When it's good players left, even if they don't like it they still have to stay out of your way if they're trying to maximise their earn. And you don't mind it if their reaction is to tighten up until you or someone else busts; weak-tight bubble play is what you're hoping for! 
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#12
09-12-2005, 05:57 PM
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Re: Refusing to chop in a mtt -EV?
I think chopping is +ev in most situations, and yes not chopping can hurt you. I was playing in a MTT at the Nugget a few months agw, the tourney had gone on for much longer than is typical, we got down to 4 players and wanted to chop except for one fella who was not even in the chip lead, though we were all fairly close the refuser was the short stack. Though I agree it was not totally professional the three of us did gang up on him, played softly on each other and broke him subsequently chopping with one less.javascript:void(0)
[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Chopping is also SOP at most B&M's. Commerce pays out chops based on chip count at time of chop wheras first usually gets less than first and third our fourth gets more than the listed prize amount. Most people agree to this because yes, as the blinds increase towards the end luck plays a bigger part in the end game
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#13
09-12-2005, 06:05 PM
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Re: Refusing to chop in a mtt -EV?
[ QUOTE ]
I'm very surprised that there aren't chops at every big buy in tournament [/ QUOTE ] If there are chops, you wouldn't hear about it, because the big tournaments are played to completion anyway, as there are titles and POTY points to be earned. I like the post here about refusing to chop not being -EV when up against good players. Actually, refusing to chop exhibits confidence, and may earn you a psychological advantage. The other question you need to ask yourself is if that little bit of expectation outweighs your chances of increasing your place by not chopping. If you are third in chips out of 5, but the top 2 players have tons of chips, then you really can't be sure what place you would finish in (3-5), so I would say take the chop. But if you are a huge chip leader, you would have to lose tons of expectation in order to kill your chances of earning the maximum, an amount of expectation that is probably impossible to lose.
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#15
09-12-2005, 08:17 PM
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Re: Refusing to chop in a mtt -EV?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I think chopping is +ev in most situations [/ QUOTE ] Chopping cannot always be +EV for everyone. Do you see why? [/ QUOTE ] Where does the money come from [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
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#16
09-13-2005, 11:31 PM
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Re: Refusing to chop in a mtt -EV?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I think chopping is +ev in most situations [/ QUOTE ] Chopping cannot always be +EV for everyone. Do you see why? [/ QUOTE ] Where does the money come from [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] From my savings on car insurance at Geico.com?
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#17
09-14-2005, 01:30 AM
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Re: Refusing to chop in a mtt -EV?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I think chopping is +ev in most situations [/ QUOTE ] Chopping cannot always be +EV for everyone. Do you see why? [/ QUOTE ] Where does the money come from [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] From my savings on car insurance at Geico.com? [/ QUOTE ] So, "chop" is a reference to "chop-shop", meaning "arrange for our cars to 'disappear' so we can collect on our policies?" [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
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