Angle Shooting / My biggest source of tilt

[beeyjay]

I used to play primarily sngs but lately I've been playing more and more 200 6 max games for a change of pace. The thing that bugs me more than anything else is how many people buyin for the minimum buyin of 20bbs. Then they proceed to get blinded down to 15 bbs and all of a sudden I kick in a raise for 5 bbs and they push all in trying to get into a race. I'm forced to call pretty much even tho half the time I'm raising with next to nothing. I really feel like the minimum buyin should be closer to 50 bbs. I guess I just want to see if I'm alone on this or if other people agree this is practically cheating as you know if these people had 50 bbs you would be able to own them all day but when they force you to gamble with them you have no edge at all.

Also what are the best ways to counter this strategy? I'm used to tournaments where its correct a lot of times to call shortstacks with practically any two cuz of the odds and the fact that you knock a player out. But in these cash games i really think I'm losing more to these players than to anybody else at the table. Say I raise it from the co or btn with A9o or some other less than ideal hand to 10 and shortstack hero boy pushes for 30 from the sb. Do i call the extra 20 or fold? does it change if im sitting on 10js and my cards are more likely live?

[lawrence]

This is not angle shooting.

[beeyjay]

it seems to me it is. They wait for a hand then essentially force you to call the extra small amount because of the money in the pot.

[Tim H]

let them hang themselves

[adios]

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it seems to me it is. They wait for a hand then essentially force you to call the extra small amount because of the money in the pot.

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Definition of an Angle

Definition of Angle Shooting

Clearly this is well with the rules of the game, is ethical, and doesn't fit these definitions. A defeciency in the rules? Perhaps, perhaps not but clearly not angle shooting. Mason basically advocated this strategy for pot limit way back when i.e. minimum buy in, willing to go all in often. Why is ethical for you to bet what ever you feel like and unethical for your opponents to do the same thing? Find a different game if you don't like the rules and it hinders your strategy.

[AllIn3High]

Their hands are usually (guesstimate):

10% AA-22
60% any ace
30% seemingly random cards

It shouldn't be too difficult to find out which hands you should call them with. I instacall w/ AA-77, AT+ and KTs+ in the situations you descibe. Sometimes I'll call w/ less if I'm tilting or they have a history of pushing with 83o.

[passion]

[ QUOTE ]
Also what are the best ways to counter this strategy? I'm used to tournaments where its correct a lot of times to call shortstacks with practically any two cuz of the odds and the fact that you knock a player out. But in these cash games i really think I'm losing more to these players than to anybody else at the table. Say I raise it from the co or btn with A9o or some other less than ideal hand to 10 and shortstack hero boy pushes for 30 from the sb. Do i call the extra 20 or fold? does it change if im sitting on 10js and my cards are more likely live?

[/ QUOTE ]

The only thing you can really do is slow down your pf raising when these short stacks are about. Not only have to be concerned about someone going over the top of you when you have a weak hand, you also have be concerned about them moving all in if you bluff a flop they have any piece of.

I raise a lot and autobet a lot of flops, but I slow down (pf raise less and check more flops) in the presence of shortstacks.

Passion

[TheWorstPlayer]

I just fold if its heads up unless I have TT+/AK. It's not worth the aggravation when I lose so I don't call unless I think I have a decent chance at dominating them. I agree that it is quite tilt inducing. Since I have learned to just shrug it off and fold, I have had no problems with tilt and really don't think it is hurting my WR.

[noggindoc]

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Also what are the best ways to counter this strategy?

[/ QUOTE ]

I hate it too but its not angle shooting. To counter it, don't raise as much with junk so that when you do raise and they push you can call.