domesticating chimps. why not

[HopeydaFish]

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When I saw this thread, I thought of that attack as well.

Mauled genitals.

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Yikes:

"Dr. Maureen Martin of Kern Medical Center told KGET-TV of Bakersfield that the monkeys chewed most of Davis' face off and that he would require extensive surgery in an attempt to reattach his nose. Chealander told The Bakersfield Californian that the chimps also tore off Davis' testicles and foot."

However:

"The Davises had waged an unsuccessful legal fight to bring Moe back to their West Covina home and visited him regularly at the sanctuary, where he had been living since October.

In 2000, after city prosecutors decided to drop charges against the Davises in Moe's 1999 attack, St. James Davis said Moe was not a threat to the public and attacked only when provoked.

"Animals bite, people bite, Mike Tyson bites. So what?" he said."

Sounds like he was just asking for it.

[Blarg]

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You should read some of the established great minds in anthropology that mostly say Diamond is a quack with poorly-supported theories.

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I don't know who Jared is or much of anything about the field, but I understand it is one rife with politics and bitchy and sometimes earnest disagreement. Stephen Jay Gould for instance disagrees strongly with Richard Dawkins, and with a great many others too.

This really isn't all that rare in science.

[slickpoppa]

An old straight dope column:

link

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Dear Cecil:

The other day I told some friends a story about how when I was 14 and living near Washington, D.C., I saw this 90-pound monkey at a carnival who could literally pick a grown man up and toss him out of a boxing ring. A crowd of people listened to a man (probably the trainer) dare anyone to stay three minutes in the ring with what appeared to be a large chimp. There was a fee to try your luck and a $100 reward if you stayed in the three minutes. Well, I'll tell you, I saw these big guys get in there with this monkey and get tossed right out. It seems the trainer had this whistle and whenever he felt inclined he would blow it, which was the signal for the chimp to do his thing. It was a delightful experience (to watch, at least). Anyway, I don't think my friends believed me. So you have to back me up, Cece: isn't it true that a 90-pound chimpanzee can throw a full-grown man through the air? --Tom M., Chicago

P.S.: Their great strength notwithstanding, is it possible to keep chimps as pets?

Dear Tom:

Chimpanzees look mighty cute trucking around on their roller skates, wearing funny hats, and going "ook, ook," but when roused they are vicious little bastards and not to be trifled with. Blessed with a muscle structure considerably superior to that of [censored] sapiens (if not nearly as fetching in a bathing suit), chimpanzees can handle almost anything that comes along. Three drunks at a carnival would be no sweat.

It's a lot easier to get a chimp in roller skates than it is to get him to pump iron--hence, most of the data on chimp strength is anecdotal and decidedly unscientific. In tests at the Bronx Zoo in 1924, a dynamometer--a scale that measures the mechanical force of a pull on a spring--was erected in the monkey house. A 165-pound male chimpanzee named "Boma" registered a pull of 847 pounds, using only his right hand (although he did have his feet braced against the wall, being somewhat hip, in his simian way, to the principles of leverage). A 165-pound man, by comparison, could manage a one-handed pull of about 210 pounds. Even more frightening, a female chimp, weighing a mere 135 pounds and going by the name of Suzette, checked in with a one-handed pull of 1,260 pounds. (She was in a fit of passion at the time; one shudders to think what her boyfriend must have looked like next morning.) In dead lifts, chimps have been known to manage weights of 600 pounds without even breaking into a sweat. A male gorilla could probably heft an 1,800-pound weight and not think twice about it.

As you might deduce, therefore, the word on keeping chimps as pets is a big negatory. Chimpanzees can never be fully domesticated; they're aggressive by nature and sooner or later they'll start to threaten their keepers in subtle ape ways that the untrained eye won't recognize, until one day--blammo.

But maybe you're thinking, I'll just keep the little beast until it starts to act tough, and then toss it back into the jungle. Wrong. A chimpanzee brought up in captivity won't be accepted by its brothers in the wild. Shunned, the citified chimp will either starve to death or be set upon by a simian hit squad. No matter how you look at it, keeping a chimp as a pet is dangerous and inhumane.

--CECIL ADAMS


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[Rduke55]

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I remember seeing a video (David Attenborough I believe) in my HS biology class of how chimps hunt. They basically used team work to surround and herd a monkey. Then they all grabbed onto it, and 4 of 5 of them all pulled and came out with a different appendage each. It was gruesome. Not a nice animal to have around.

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I used to show that series in my animal behavior course. That was one of the last ones I showed during the semester. People would walk out during that scene. It was brutal.

[Rduke55]

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Its species is dying because they suck.

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This might be the single most stupid statement I have EVER seen on OOT. Congratulations, Sir.

Swede

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I second that.
And you're spot on with the intelligence isn't the only thing post.

[Blarg]

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Im sure if people made the effort over the next 1000 years chimps could be domesticated. Dogs weren't immediatly trained and safely living with humans. Domesticated dogs greatly helped humans bak inthe day, chim[ps would be more of a novelty now.

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Wolves have been domesticated within the first and second generation, though. Very big difference.

The domestication isn't perfect, but it's solid and reliable pretty much from the start. Same with things like water buffalos, goats, ducks, etc., and I imagine most of our other species. If the pay-off isn't quick, there's no profit in it; you just have another mouth to feed. Which primitive peoples or overtaxed peasants just couldn't afford.

People can deal with something that is immediately or nearly immediately able to greatly adjust its ability to get along and be managed. But who wants to do a project that is 1000 years long before there's some unknown pay-off? Better to just chop 'em up and eat 'em.

[WhoIam]

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[censored] sapiens


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Funniest thing I've seen all day. I hope I don't get banned for saying "H*m* Erectus"

[DrSavage]

[Rduke55]

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It's commonly believed in Africa that "bush meat" contributed to the spreading of Ebola.

A friend of mine worked on a pilot project training chimps to assist the disabled. It got scrapped mid way because of the animal's agression. Only very young ones were suitable. Once they became adults they were way too agressive.

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By the way, did you hear the news? They finally found the natural reservoir for Ebola -- the animal that harbors it in the wild. Bats.

Sometimes at such incredibly low levels that certain DNA tests couldn't even find it when they were tested before. Confirmed now though.

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Where did you see this?

[Rduke55]

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You should read some of the established great minds in anthropology that mostly say Diamond is a quack with poorly-supported theories.

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I don't know who Jared is or much of anything about the field, but I understand it is one rife with politics and bitchy and sometimes earnest disagreement. Stephen Jay Gould for instance disagrees strongly with Richard Dawkins, and with a great many others too.

This really isn't all that rare in science.

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Yeah, antrhopology is a mess. It's like high school.
And many scientists have a bad impression of "popularizer" scientists.
I like a lot of Diamond's stuff. I thought Guns, Germs, and Steel was a great read.