Quick question, J5s mike l. style

[Fianchetto]

Pretty nice 40/80 B&M game.

I've been playing tight aggressive, but the guy two seats to my left is starting to grumble about me raising his blinds.

Folded to me on the button, I raise J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], SB calls, BB folds.

SB is a loose aggressive Vietnamese player, he likes to raise, and he likes to bluff. If he wasn't too loose he might be dangerous.

Anyway:

Flop: J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

He checks, I bet, he raises, I 3-bet, he 4-bets, I 5-bet....

What do you think of taking it to 5-bets, do I make more here by backing off and letting him lead at me, possible waiting 'til the river to raise. It seems like some of these guys like to get into flop raising wars, so I didn't want to stop the party when I'm 95% certain he doesn't have a jack. I guess my question is if these guys like to push back on a flop like this, should I go to war with him or do I let him take the lead and continue his bluff instead of telling him I like my hand.

[JAA]

I like going to war here, but if you get 6-bet I think it may be time to slow down. The reason why I favor getting more bets in now rather than waiting for the turn/river is that there are a lot of cards that can hit the turn that can slow down your opponent or force you to slow down. Some guys love jamming a flush draw on the flop, but once they brick on the turn they go into check/call mode. I say get the money in when they are most likely willing to gambool.

- Jags

[mmcd]

If this were truely a mike l. style hand, you'd be putting in the 5-bet with AK or 22 rather than the J.

[Fianchetto]

[ QUOTE ]
If this were truely a mike l. style hand, you'd be putting in the 5-bet with AK or 22 rather than the J.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hah, true.

I guess that's my question, do I need to do that stuff before he'll go to war with me holding a seven 'cause after I 5-bet he thought and then mumbled something like "...seven no good, seven no good..." and he mucks for 1 more small bet.

If he really had a seven, I don't know, but I immediately wished I had slowed down and let him keep firing.

[2ndGoat]

I was once playing 20/40 at the borgata and a loose-aggressive Vietnamese player complained about me raising the previous 3 hands. The rest of the table submitted some protests as well. Of course I raised, guys, I had AA/QQ/KK. But I took down all three pots without showing, and I wasn't going to share this information. So on hand 4 I raise with JJ, and lead protestor cold-calls. Flop comes J99. he raise-raise-raise-folds the flop. With hindsight I definitely wish I had stopped at 6 :-( But I had an extra bet to lose by allowing him a free street by slowing down to check-raise, compared to your spot where you can at least bet behind if he checks at any point.

I like waiting til the river to pop again if you suspect a bluff and there's still a small chance you're beaten, where he can't get away from it if he caught any piece and also may not put in the last raise with the best hand. They certainly won't fold when the pot is that big for one more bet (unless they ran an enormous pure bluff that picked up nothing) and people usually seem to repect a river raise more than the 4th+ one on the flop, because a lag can no longer rationalize that you're protecting a weak hand from being outdrawn, or that you're trying to get checked to on next street with an expensive free card. Even players that won't put that much thought into it seem to have a psychological barrier against 3-betting non-nut hands in this spot.

2nd

[haakee]

I'm a big fan of getting into flop raising wars here with people like this.

[casinogosain]

Get it while the getting is good.

-Ash