a 2/4 hand

[Goat_boy]

2/4 party

Hero is button with AcKd
BB is 49/9.5/1.0
MP3 is 19/12/2.1

PreFlop: MP3 raises, Hero reraises, BB calls, MP3 calls
[9.5sb]

Flop: 5h Jc 6s
BB checks, MP3 bets, Hero raises, BB calls, MP3 calls
[7.5bb]

Turn: Ts
All check

River: 5c
All check

Thanks.

[Octopus]

I like.

The turn is the only question. If we knew our opponents were unlikely to check-raise, we might bet in order to get a free showdown. You provided no reads to that effect, so I am taking the free card.

[ghostwriter]

[ QUOTE ]
I like.

The turn is the only question. If we knew our opponents were unlikely to check-raise, we might bet in order to get a free showdown. You provided no reads to that effect, so I am taking the free card.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't understand. How does betting on the turn give you a free showdown?

[Goat_boy]

A check-raise was unlikely.
Current stats are 0% of 112 hands for LAP
0.42% of 551 hands for TAA.

I was comparing this to hand quiz 1) in SSHE turn hand quizzes, where a bet is in order.
Potsize is roughly equal on the turn in both hands, but draw is nut-flush+(AK)overcards and there are 3 opponents who called your 1 bet on flop.

[cmwck]

Could someone clarify why we're raising the flop?
I think I know why, just want to make sure.

Also, do we still raise if it was heads up on the flop?

[Goat_boy]

[ QUOTE ]
Could someone clarify why we're raising the flop?
I think I know why, just want to make sure.



[/ QUOTE ]

To protect vulnerable outs and buy a free card (?)

As for turning down the free card, i don't think everyone's folding to a bet and i'm not too scared of the check-raise, so is it not (simply!) a question of whether a turn bet increases winning chances enough to be profitable?

[Octopus]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I like.

The turn is the only question. If we knew our opponents were unlikely to check-raise, we might bet in order to get a free showdown. You provided no reads to that effect, so I am taking the free card.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't understand. How does betting on the turn give you a free showdown?

[/ QUOTE ]

If we check the turn, we will have to call a bet on the river. A bet here has the benefit that, if we are behind, we might draw out. The call on the river lacks this benefit. In short, a bet here costs less than a call on the river. So a checked through river isn't a "free showdown", but it is cheaper. That was my thinking anyway. (Also, if we are ahead, people might fold, incorrectly, as it turns out. But either way, their folding is good.)

[Octopus]

[ QUOTE ]
Could someone clarify why we're raising the flop?
I think I know why, just want to make sure.

Also, do we still raise if it was heads up on the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because the idea of calling first to act after a flop bettor with people left behind me to act in a (re-)raised pot makes my skin crawl. (Not that it is never correct, but here it is not. We are not folding, so raising is the best play.)

A more complete answer is, we would like that cold calling big blind to pay big time. If he has a middle pocket pair, we want him gone. If he has A5, we definitely want him gone. Even if all he has is a weak draw or he missed the flop entirely, we want him gone. (He would have 6-10 outs or more against us and would be right to call the raise.) As for MP3, we are mainly worried about AJ from him. More likely is AQ or KQ or something like that. (AA, KK, QQ and even AK are likely to have capped it pre-flop.) All that, plus we might get a free card on the turn if we want it.

[Goat_boy]

But do you bet the turn?

[Octopus]

[ QUOTE ]
I was comparing this to hand quiz 1) in SSHE turn hand quizzes, where a bet is in order.
Potsize is roughly equal on the turn in both hands, but draw is nut-flush+(AK)overcards and there are 3 opponents who called your 1 bet on flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

That bet is for value. We have 9 outs to the flush plus 3 outs to the straight all of which are the nuts. We also have 6 more outs which might be good. As a bonus, we might be ahead (having been checked to twice). We are less likely to be check-raised since all we did was bet, not raise, on the flop. We don't even mind being check-raised much because we have so many outs. Put it all together and its a bet. Here our draw is much weaker, so getting check-raised hurts us much more, plus we are a more likely target for a check raise.

As for whether this is a turn bet, it could go either way. Will your opponents check-raise? (You say no.) Will they call down with bottom pair? Will they fold the turn with nothing (having bet or called two cold on the flop)? Will they check better hands to you on the river?