Skirt, then pants, then skirt again

Bill Smith · #1 03-30-2005, 03:47 PM

BB is LAG preflop and plays back with any pair, calls or raises any draw. Button is a tight somewhat passive player.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP with 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises, Button calls, 1 fold, BB calls.

Flop: (6.40 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, Button checks.

Turn: (3.20 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, Button calls, BB calls.

River: (6.20 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, Button bets, BB calls, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 8.20 BB

Alobar · #2 03-30-2005, 03:53 PM

Next time you decide to check a flop like this, instead I want you to push fold, and then when the little box pops up that says "are you sure?" I want you to hit yes.

Bill Smith · #3 03-30-2005, 04:13 PM

Ok, good, here's question number 1:

Let's say I bet the flop and both call, which has been happening to me at this table about the last 20 times I've bet the flop in a similar situation. Are you betting the turn?

And of course, question 2 is whether the river is a fold or call?

Alobar · #4 03-30-2005, 04:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Let's say I bet the flop and both call, which has been happening to me at this table about the last 20 times I've bet the flop in a similar situation. Are you betting the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

If they both called this flop, then Im check/folding the turn. If only one calls the flop, its a little tougher. It depends on weather I have position and what kind of read I have on him. I really dont like the fact that on the flop you had 3rd pair, if you had second pair Id be much more in favor of a bet again, but again it really all depends on which guy stayed, and what my read is.

[ QUOTE ]
And of course, question 2 is whether the river is a fold or call?

[/ QUOTE ] I like the river fold, its a protected pot and youve got 4th pair.

jayrutz2 · #5 03-30-2005, 04:28 PM

[/ QUOTE ] I like the river fold, its a protected pot and youve got 4th pair.

[/ QUOTE ]

Protected pot??? - please define Thx!

Alobar · #6 03-30-2005, 04:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I like the river fold, its a protected pot and youve got 4th pair.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Protected pot??? - please define Thx!

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Whenever there is a bet and a call, the pot is said to be "protected". The original bettor could be bluffing, but obviously the caller can not. So the caller has at least some hand he views is worthy of a call, so your hand has to be that much better now to call.

Bill Smith · #7 03-30-2005, 04:41 PM

So this is why I'm getting frustrated, and maybe I'm on tilt a little bit, but here's the long and short of my logic.

They don't fold to the flop bet, so I decide to change up my play - plan to check raise the flop if he bets on the end, otherwise bet the turn. They call anyway, so I check fold the river.

Button shows AQ for high card.
BB shows 75 for the gutshot draw that caught 4th pair on the river.

I know I should bet the flop, but this is about the 3rd or 4th time something very similar has happened in the last couple sessions. I can't protect my hand and I end up making what looks like a bad fold.

jayrutz2 · #8 03-30-2005, 05:13 PM

Ahhh, nice to have a name for a concept I understand [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
Tx

Grisgra · #9 03-30-2005, 05:19 PM

I'd have bet the flop, and if nobody played back at me, probably bet the turn too, even with two callers, just in case I can get a weak 8 to fold. In your situation I'd have folded the river as well.

Stop complaining, you're at a table where AQ doesn't reraise you and the BB will chase any draw even with horribly bad odds. You just gotta adjust and keep all that in mind.

Guy McSucker · #10 03-30-2005, 05:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Stop complaining, you're at a table where AQ doesn't reraise you and the BB will chase any draw even with horribly bad odds. You just gotta adjust and keep all that in mind.

[/ QUOTE ]

Spoken like a man who has got his game back together. Excellent. Go, Gris, Go!

Guy.