Second-guessing JJ

solring · #1 05-25-2005, 12:41 PM

I've been running bad (at least in my own mind and according to PokerTracker) and two hands from last night, both involving pocket jacks, I think typify my play. I'm seeing monsters/ghosts/dead people everywhere I look. What's the correct way to play these? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Hand 1:
UTG had a VPIP of 25% and a PFR of 8% over 24 hands. SB had a VPIP of 22% and a PFR of 11% over 18 hands.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG raises, 1 fold, Hero 3-bets, 4 folds, SB calls, 1 fold, UTG caps, Hero calls, SB calls.

Flop: (13 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, UTG bets, Hero calls, SB raises, UTG 3-bets, Hero folds, SB calls.

Turn: (10 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, UTG checks.

River: (10 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, UTG checks.

Final Pot: 10 BB

Hand 2:
This was UTG+1's first hand at the table. MP1 had played 6 of the last 10 hands.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 max, 9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. UTG+1 posts a blind of $1.
1 fold, UTG+1 (poster) raises, MP1 calls, 2 folds, CO calls, 1 fold, Hero 3-bets, BB calls, UTG+1 caps, MP1 calls, CO folds, Hero calls, BB calls.

Flop: (18 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, BB calls, UTG+1 raises, MP1 calls, Hero calls, BB calls.

Turn: (13 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG+1 bets, MP1 raises, Hero folds, BB folds, UTG+1 calls.

River: (17 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks.

Final Pot: 17 BB

shadow29 · #2 05-25-2005, 12:45 PM

Hand 1: Raise the flop.

Hand 2: 3-bet the flop.

irishpint · #3 05-25-2005, 12:52 PM

first hand id raise the flop. second hand id 3 bet the flop. you're seeing crazy people eating dinosaur monsters. Holding pocket jacks with no overcards you need to pry the cards out of my hands and im raising everything until then.

Jaran · #4 05-25-2005, 01:39 PM

Although this might be tainted by seeing the way the rest of the hands went down after you folded (hint, hint), I think you went into your shell a little early on both hands. I'm raising the flop in hand 1 and 3betting the flop in hand 2. Do you have any reads on these guys?

-Jaran

Isura · #5 05-25-2005, 01:58 PM

Hand 1: I'd raise the flop. Pot is big enough and worth protecting. UTG would lead with AA-QQ, but also with JJ-TT and AK, AK-AJs, KQs (even without a flush draw). If UTG 3-bet I go into calldown mode unless an A comes on the turn, then I consider folding depending on the action.

Hand 2: I'd rather check/raise the flop than bet out here. UTG's reaction to a c/r is more reliable than one to a bet, so you can probably lead the turn and fold to a raise, or check/call the river UI depending on the board.

deception5 · #6 05-25-2005, 02:24 PM

These hands look somewhat familiar as well (I don't remember hand 2, but it could have been me also).

In the first one, low paired boards often play interestingly after a preflop cap. No one believes anyone else has a pair or the 6. The pot is fairly large and if this is the hand I'm thinking of, utg(me) had something like AQs. Betting this flop would be automatic as it's certainly possible it didn't hit anyone. After sb raises, I give credit that they probably have a pocket pair. I raise to take one last shot at this 17sb pot (costs me 2sb to possibly win 18), planning to fold if bet into again. Also I hoped to knock out mp1 and buy position.

I checked behind on the turn and river as I didn't hit and I didn't think sb would fold often enough to make a bluff worthwhile (I would also not be surprised to be check/raised on the turn).

I think sb had something like 8's or 9's.

In summary I would not let go of JJ so quickly especially on a low paired board.