25/50 hand reading

[toke]

Did you just call 4.5BB raise cold with K9s? How many handed was this? Am I missing something here? Isn't that a horrible call?

[AceHiStation]

I'm waiting for him to say he was villain and we can all start making fun of villain for this ridiculous K9 call.

[theBruiser500]

pf, maybe calling is a mistake, if i play well postflop i don't see how it can be a big mistake though. if the open raiser is a good player it must be bad call but in this case he wasn't good, then the player that coldcalls after him was terrible. so 4 handed pot on button with K9s and a bad player in front of me who gives a ton of action.

flop, checking is an option here basically giving up on the pot or hoping to check it down, the thing is if someone has a draw they may just c/r me off my hand which would suck, and someone could easily be trapping with better hand.

on turn it doesn't seem like he has a big hand that would be tricky checking to me twice with a big hand. maybe an all in to protect vs. draw and blow him off marginally better made hand?

maybe a missed flush draw, maybe a flush draw that made a staight. or maybe KJ which is what he had. more thoughts on all streets?

[sxz18]

How much did he lead for?

[durron597]

If he's reasonable on the tight side, what do you think about him having a set (444)? Sure good players want to punish the club draw, but not every player. When you bet the flop he probably puts you on a good king and figures you'll bet the turn again. When you don't, he leads the river and hope you interpret it as an attempt to take the pot down.

I certainly don't put him on AQ. AK I expect him to reraise preflop but it's possible he doesn't want to do that out of position. I think AK usually donkbets the turn though even if they decided to check the flop. KQs and KJs are possible but he's calling a raise out of position without the suited ace.

I think his most likely holdings are 44, then KJ because of the largish pot bet. KQ comes in third because I expect him to lead less since the bet is more of a blocking bet with that hand and he doesn't want to lose too much if you pop him back.

[captZEEbo1]

fold pf.

He can have something like AcTs or QcJs, no? I have a pretty good feeling you're beat here. Although, most good players won't be drawing on this board OOP for a pot bet I assume, right? When you check turn though, he has to figure you for just an Ac or some really weak hand, because any kind of made hand would want to protect itself on such a draw heavy board. When you checked turn, you really set yourself up for calling a bet if a blank hits on the river.

I've found these high stakes games are so situational and player dependent though. That for one opponent I call as fast as possible, and other opponents I fold without blinking. Just knowing someone is tight isn't enough to know their player tendencies though. How often does this player bet pot? Is that out of the ordinary, or is the only bet he makes pot? By tight, do you just mean preflop?

[ QUOTE ]
on turn it doesn't seem like he has a big hand that would be tricky checking to me twice with a big hand. maybe an all in to protect vs. draw and blow him off marginally better made hand?

[/ QUOTE ]
Nut flush wouldn't mind checking turn, right? Because they'd want you to make another big bet to protect whatever crap hand you have, and then they can check-raise.

[sxz18]

I don't think the board has three of a suit, therefore a flush is impossible. Also, I don't think I fold K9h on the button.

As for what Villian has, I think Villian would lead with AK on the flop. There are so many hands Villian could have that I would just fold this hand and move on. K9 is too marginal to get involved with in such a big pot. AQc, KJc, KT, and KJ all have you dominated. Villian could have 44 as well. I like your flop bet but I think if it gets called, you can't put any more money in the pot.

[cero_z]

Hi Bruiser,

[ QUOTE ]
pf, maybe calling is a mistake, if i play well postflop i don't see how it can be a big mistake though. if the open raiser is a good player it must be bad call but in this case he wasn't good, then the player that coldcalls after him was terrible. so 4 handed pot on button with K9s and a bad player in front of me who gives a ton of action.


[/ QUOTE ]

I think your reasoning above is good in general, but this EXACT hand runs into so much trouble that I fold it against most pf raisers, good or not, unless we're shorthanded. Specifically, you have to fret about some of the biggest flops this hand can get, since there are very legitimate raising hands that hit the same flops harder, or be drawing extremely live. I'm thinking of QJT (where you may look at AK or a set), flops that have 2 Ks, and to a lesser extent, 2nd nut flush draws. Obviously, you'll take any of these flops, but it sucks when even near-perfect flops don't enable you to get a ton of money in with your opponent drawing mostly dead.

And yes, I realize I called a reraise from you today with 73s and now I'm telling you to tighten up pre-flop, but in my mind you had a big pair or maybe AK 100% of the time, so 73s is preferable to K9s in that spot. Plus, I'm lucky.

As for the rest of the hand, it looked good to me. On the river, you have to use the available context to guess if he'd try a big bluff here or not. Obviously, he's not betting a worse hand for value. I say usually fold against a standard decent player.

[cero_z]

[ QUOTE ]
what do you put him on? ...KJ, which is what he had


[/ QUOTE ]
--Not that. I guess he wasn't as tight or reasonable as you thought.

Also, why aren't you in Vegas right now? I understand they're holding a rather large tournament out there.

[ClaytonN]

I don't understand how a reasonable player on the "tight side" calls KJ in that spot out of position for a little under the size of the pot.

That said, it seems like either you should be folding preflop or commiting more to the hand on the turn. You can push him off of hands like KJ and KQ while not giving speculative straight and flush draws chances to outdraw you.