Should you play low PP's early in $10/$20's?

[swiftrhett]

What is so great about this situation? You hit your set 11.8% of the time. In this case, +270 chips adds 0.0298 $EV according to ICM (of the prize pool). When you don't hit the set, losing 30 chips costs you 0.0044 $EV.

So, 0.0966*(100-11.8)/100+0.1298*11.8/100 = 0.100518 $EV for making the move, as opposed to 0.1 that you have for folding.

So, assuming it works out just the way you planned, you're gaining 0.5% equity by making the move.

At the beginning of a $10 sng, this is like saying your equity is worth $10 if you fold, and $10.05 if you want to play this game with your pocket pairs.

A few things to keep in mind though: I'm assuming it works out exactly as you planned on average. I believe that this is generous, and it does not ALWAYS work out as great as you described. If it works out that great 90% of the time, this is -$EV. Also, you are gaining $EV in these tournies by just folding early on. When the game becomes 9 players, and you have 800 chips, you have gained $EV from the 10 player start.

[ QUOTE ]
The answer is clearly yes, its +EV to play pocker pairs early on.
Why? because u can stack your oponents..or even if u dont stack them u win lots of chips.
For instance:
level 2: u limp , 4 ppl see the flop.
U see the flop, u hit ure set, u bet 90 u get 2 callers. U fire again at the turn and they fold, guess what u won 270 chips. Trust me even if u dont stack an oponent with your set you will still win some chips.

Pesky sets is another topic altogether( like with a flush on the board)..but my chips are usually in anyway on a pesky flop( fh odds If im accidentally behind).

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[tigerite]

0.05% you mean. 0.5 would be pretty big.

[swiftrhett]

0.1005/0.1 = 1.005. This implies your gain is 0.5%, no?

[tigerite]

I'm too tired to work it out right now, but, I'm not sure that's the right way to work out the % as it's too confusing compared to the EV Min Edge thing that SNGPT has.

[swiftrhett]

I think I'm doing it the same way that SNGPT does it, and the default setting for the min edge where it will even display the arrow on something is 0.5%. So, I'm making some assumptions with this guy, and barely getting the min edge where you should even consider the results meaningful.

My point from the beginning is that right now I think it is just about 0 $EV to play these, which is what I'm still seeing. So, I don't know why everyone believes that they are +$EV.

[tigerite]

Nah it just adds the min edge to the fold ev, basically. At least as far as I understand it.

Anyway, I agree with you, but people just love to hit sets. There are still quite a few occasions when you should call with small pairs too of course. Just not really limping EP and calling raises with them (unless it's a family pot)

[jeffraider]

I've been thinking about this recently. I've been limping them for 15 chips in Level 1 but folding 77 and worse in level 2. I think that's okay, but I've noticed some of my favourite posters saying that they should be folded.

[swiftrhett]

I just tried it. It only affects the arrow. If push and fold are within 0.5% of each other, it says, "It's close enough that pushing and folding are both reasonable plays". The point is that ICM is not even accurate to 0.5% probably.

[swiftrhett]

I'm folding 66 and worse. I think 77 is ok. Obviously, there are still a lot of times I play them, shorthnaded and on the blinds. I may limp with small pairs on level on, then give up limping 22-66 on level 2.

[ QUOTE ]
I've been thinking about this recently. I've been limping them for 15 chips in Level 1 but folding 77 and worse in level 2. I think that's okay, but I've noticed some of my favourite posters saying that they should be folded.

[/ QUOTE ]

[DMACM]

[ QUOTE ]
None of this is really helping. I was agreeing with most of you. But the point of this was for you to look at your stats and see if this play is actually making you money. My guess is that if you have enough stats, you'll see it isn't helping you much, if at all.

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This has helped me a lot. Youll never get a clear answer because there are so many different situations. But I liked the idea of playing them more in the first level and I will be playing them a lot more carefully from now on.