Seeing a card

[dachord]

Home game, tournament style, $100 buy-in, winner take all. After 1 tourney was completed another one started. The player to my right (villain) is LAG and very dramatic. I quickly learned that when the cards were dealt he would look at them immediately and start his act. Whenever he got a good card, he would frown, sigh, rub his brow, essentially trying to make everyone believe that he didn't have anything. So I'm watching him closely whenever the cards are dealt. During one hand the dealer (who is sitting across from me)tosses the first card and as the card sails through the air I catch a very brief glimpse of the distinct pattern of the Ace of spades. The card lands on the table face down, the player picks it up and starts his hollywood acting which confirms to me that the card was indeed an ace. I'm dealt A9o. As usual, he raises up his small blind to 4x bb. I call. The flop comes down Axx. He leads out with another 4xbb. I call. The turn is a 9. He makes another 4x bet and I raise. Folds all around to villain. He goes all in, I call. River is a blank. He has AQ. I win the pot with 2 pair and elminate him from the tourney. Thoughts?

When a card flashes you should announce that the card has flashed so that the card can be treated as an exposed card.

[Colquhoun]

While you did get a perfect read on him, and were able to confirm it, and anyone else at the table may have had the same read....you also had information that the rest of the table did not have. You KNEW he had an ace when others may have just suspected it. To continue with this knowledge is IMO unethical.

[Khabbi]

You should have announced that you saw the card and made sure the dealer(s) were more carelful when dealing cards from that point forward.

There is no need to send cards "sailing" through the air, just hold the deck low and slide the cards across the table.

[joshdvm]

[ QUOTE ]
When a card flashes you should announce that the card has flashed...

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
You should have announced that you saw the card...

[/ QUOTE ]

Question: Is this an actual rule or is this just something under the category of "etiquette?"

Thanks in advance for your replies.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
When a card flashes you should announce that the card has flashed...

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
You should have announced that you saw the card...

[/ QUOTE ]

Question: Is this an actual rule or is this just something under the category of "etiquette?"

Thanks in advance for your replies.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is a rule that a card exposed on the deal is shown to all and replaced (unless the circumstances generate a misdeal) The card was exposed. Therefore it should be shown to all and replaced. That isn't etiquette that is the rule.

[tubalkain]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
When a card flashes you should announce that the card has flashed...

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
You should have announced that you saw the card...

[/ QUOTE ]

Question: Is this an actual rule or is this just something under the category of "etiquette?"

Thanks in advance for your replies.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is a rule that a card exposed on the deal is shown to all and replaced (unless the circumstances generate a misdeal) The card was exposed. Therefore it should be shown to all and replaced. That isn't etiquette that is the rule.

[/ QUOTE ]

Quoted for truth.

[joshdvm]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
When a card flashes you should announce that the card has flashed...

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
You should have announced that you saw the card...

[/ QUOTE ]

Question: Is this an actual rule or is this just something under the category of "etiquette?"

Thanks in advance for your replies.

[/ QUOTE ]

The card was exposed. Therefore it should be shown to all and replaced. That isn't etiquette that is the rule.

[/ QUOTE ]

Understood and agreed 100%.

However, in this instance, the card was flashed to one player unbeknownst to everyone else at the table. This presents a dilemma to the player with this “illicit” knowledge. Is this player “on his honor” to disclose this information? Obviously, this is the only way in which this situation could be remedied.

So it is, after all, a question of etiquette.

As you and I well know, however, while the angelic among us would indeed feel honor-bound to disclose this information (I include myself, of course, in this camp) others would be in the Jack Straus “Bust-Their-Own-Grandmother” camp and would keep it to themselves. And—perhaps rightly so—believe they are in the right.

How then is this dilemma resolved for the “honest” player? Is it fair that he voluntarily discloses this information repudiating any unfair advantage over others, while others exploit their unfair advantage over him when the roles are reversed? Again, how is this to be resolved?

Your, or any other’s thoughts welcome.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
When a card flashes you should announce that the card has flashed...

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
You should have announced that you saw the card...

[/ QUOTE ]

Question: Is this an actual rule or is this just something under the category of "etiquette?"

Thanks in advance for your replies.

[/ QUOTE ]

The card was exposed. Therefore it should be shown to all and replaced. That isn't etiquette that is the rule.

[/ QUOTE ]

Understood and agreed 100%.

However, in this instance, the card was flashed to one player unbeknownst to everyone else at the table. This presents a dilemma to the player with this “illicit” knowledge. Is this player “on his honor” to disclose this information? Obviously, this is the only way in which this situation could be remedied.

So it is, after all, a question of etiquette.

As you and I well know, however, while the angelic among us would indeed feel honor-bound to disclose this information (I include myself, of course, in this camp) others would be in the Jack Straus “Bust-Their-Own-Grandmother” camp and would keep it to themselves. And—perhaps rightly so—believe they are in the right.

How then is this dilemma resolved for the “honest” player? Is it fair that he voluntarily discloses this information repudiating any unfair advantage over others, while others exploit their unfair advantage over him when the roles are reversed? Again, how is this to be resolved?

Your, or any other’s thoughts welcome.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, it doesn't change from the issue of being a rule to being an issue of etiquette just because you present a situation where no one else is aware that the rule is being broken. If you commit a crime in private it is still a crime, not just a breach of protocal.

The question of whether one acts honestly when they can get away with acting dishonestly is a matter of personal integrity. Of course your decision there is probably indicative of the other types of decisions you make in your life, and eventually people will catch on and treat you accordingly.

[tonypaladino]

you should let everyone know the card was exposed, the whole table gets to see it, and it becomes the burn card. the player is then dealt the burn card to complete his hand.