Racism in the NBA and NFL

[SammyKid11]

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My argument was not there were more failure than sucesses my argument is. If LBJ T-Mac etc. went to college they would be similarly succesfull, while Lenny Cooke etc. would not be nearly as big failures.

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First, you have no way of knowing whether Lenny Cooke would be less of a failure if he went to college. Second, you have no way of knowing if T-Mac or LeBron would be similarly successful had they gone to college...some people do not benefit from learning to specialize at the college game, others get bad coaching in college (my college roommate, a pitcher drafted out of high school by the Braves but opted to go to TCU because Nolan Ryan was supposed to be the pitching coach there but left right before my roomy's freshman year, instead learned HORRIBLE habits from a bad coach...totally f'ed up his game, and he was never drafted again -- had he gone straight to the minors, he may have received much better coaching and be a successful player today). Thirdly, you're still assuming that college necessarily helps players to be better in some way, when the evidence that's presently available simply does not support that claim.

[J.A.Sucker]

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it could be perceived as racist, but it affects Jason Williams as much as Jay Williams.

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Now which one killed the limo driver, and which one crashed his motorcycle? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

I agree with everything you say, BTW. I also think that the hubbubb about the dress code in the NBA is foolish. They can still wear golf shirts and nice jeans, which isn't that big of a deal. Further, I suspect if a single high-profile player wants to "push the limits" (maybe AI or 'Sheed), then the clothing companies (Sean John for example) would be more than happy to pay his fines for all of the press they'd get. 82 games at 10K a pop is nothing for all of the face time. Stern's gonna have to start threatening suspension and such, and that's more good press for these companies. Easy deal.

[SammyKid11]

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But 40+ people(mostly white) don't want to see millionaire athletes
dressed as gangsta rappers. It's a turn-off and the NBA wants
to attract these people too.

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Hence my point. The NBA is pandering to the racist attitudes of some of their audience. Millionaire athletes dressed as gangsta rappers.....why SHOULD that turn-off white culture if not for racism? Did white America fail to accept Johnny Damon's long hair? Did white America not accept the earrings of Jim McMahon? Of COURSE they did!!!! That was "quirky" and "edgy" but still totally acceptable to the vast majority of white America...in fact, totally EMBRACED by the vast majority of white America. But with "edgy" black culture, the NBA believes they will sell more tickets if they eliminate that element...because they assume (probably somewhat correctly) that white America is uncomfortable with "edgy" in young black males.

Pandering to perceived racism in your audience is committing a form of racism yourself. So thanks...my point exactly.

[SammyKid11]

Gonores, your replies have been most thoughtful and well-conceived. I take your point about basketball and football being harder to scout than baseball or hockey.

Also, yeah...I know there are minor league options. That's why I've been careful to use the word "viable." My contention is that none of the minor league options presently available to these kids is a viable means of achieving major league status (as evidenced by your paragraph about NBDL).

My further contention is that unless and until these two leagues are willing to invest the money that it would take to create viable, major-league-attached minor league teams and leagues...they ought not close the door of job opportunity to anyone qualified to play the game at the top level based on something as arbitrary as age...certainly not to protect owners and GM's from themselves. There are big boys we're talking about. They should go one way or another. But closing their doors to a certain age group leaves college as the only "viable" alternative...and as long as college persists to be a form of indentured servitude for some kids, I'm against them being practically forced into that system.

But thank you for your comments...do you have a background in sports management at some level?

[mmbt0ne]

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"let the players dress however they want as long as its not offensive."

What's offensive to David Stern, however, might not be so to Tim Duncan.

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I'm willing to bet that David Stern is blacker than Tim Duncan.

[BettyBoopAA]

Quote: I'll refer you to my earlier comments...the natural standards for NBA dress is the uniform they wear during the game. After the game, I agree that they shouldn't wear anything "offensive," but I don't think David Stern and a bunch of stuffy old white guy owners should have the right to define an entire culture of black fashion as "offensive" and "intolerable." It's a targeted effort to "whitewash" the league. No matter the reason, there's a racist element in that.

Of course they do, the NBA is a buisness, where I work, we have a certain dress code as well. The commisioner is trying to fix a problem that is getter worse. For many fans, the NBA has become unwatchable. So if future players want to earn obscene money for shooting a basket in a net, then maybe they could thank their lucky stars and help try to market the product better instead of being a bunch of spoiled selfish babies. If you think that's racist, then call me a racist.

[SammyKid11]

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Although some of these guys haven't gotten in legal trouble. T-Mac is an egomaniacal cancer who hasn't won a playoff series. Jermaine O'Neal needlessly punched a fan in last years brawl, and Kobe has had no legal or character problems recently.
Just because they were sucessful out of high school doesn't mean going to college would not benefit them.

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I'm gonna say this one more time. HS draftees...lower percentage of off-court problems than college draftees. What about the evidence presently available leads you to believe that college is somehow a behavior-improving mechanism?

And come on...you're citing T-Mac's EGO and losing in the playoffs as a need for college? If he'd gone to school and been worshipped for a couple years, his EGO would be lower and the Rockets would have beaten the Mavericks in Game 7 last year?

Same with Jermaine O'Neal. Ron Artest went to college at St. John's...why didn't his college experience keep him from doing what he did?

And Kobe? Well, let's forget about the fact that his case was thrown out of court for lack of evidence (and also not let this thread turn into a Kobe thread). What about college do you think would have kept him from cheating on his wife, man? He's in a strange town, there's a beautiful woman...and what, he remembers what his freshman English teacher said about Shakespearean adultery in Henry VIII? Come on.

No causality exists between college and better citizenship. Quit pretending that it does.

[SammyKid11]

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For many fans, the NBA has become unwatchable.

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Why is seeing black fashion an unwatchable event for white America? Is there a legitimate reason for the unwatchability of do-rags and throwback jerseys and gold chains? Why is Johnny Damon's hair not unwatchable? Why were Jim McMahon's earrings not unwatchable?

I'll leave you to draw your own conclusions about that.



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So if future players want to earn obscene money for shooting a basket in a net, then maybe they could thank their lucky stars and help try to market the product better instead of being a bunch of spoiled selfish babies.

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How does forcing black athletes to abandon their personal and cultural sense of fashion make the product BETTER? Different maybe...more white, maybe. But what is intrinsically BETTER about collared shirts than throwback jerseys?

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If you think that's racist, then call me a racist.

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I don't think I will. I know nothing about you other than that your opinion differs from mine.

[cdxx]

here's the difference between LPGA and the NBA/NFL. Wie is not employed by them. She has no obligations other than to herself. Wie is still going to finish high school and probably go to college (Tiger did), though she'll never participate in NCAA. if she has a test, or she is not doing well, she can take a month off from golf. in fact, under the LPGA rules she can only play in 6 events per year until she is 18, and she can only play a full schedule when she is 21 (or something like that).

if you are an 18 year old kid in the NBA, you have a contract and an obligation to your team to play and travel 3-4 times a week, from september until june. you have ZERO opportunity to finish school or go to college.

[lastsamurai]

GO watch a european Soccer match! I never seen a crowd chant the N word in the life!