Am I supposed to flat call this river? - Page 2

#11 10-23-2005, 02:33 AM

people say crazy things. Sure it's possible that he has a str8 flush, but it's also likely he flopped a set that turned into a boat and was saying that stuff for deception purposes so that you don't put him on the right hand. I think you have to raise at least once here.

Borodog · #12 10-23-2005, 02:50 AM

I should have posted this hand in parts. There's a crapload of stuff in this hand other than the river. Such as, how many bets will you go preflop with no cap with AK? How many bets will you go preflop with JJ? Quite frankly, I didn't have to think about going 5 bets preflop with JJ because (clearly on the flop) I'd forgotten the cap had come off (heads up pots are rare in this game; strangely though, they always seem to be the most interesting).

Furthermore, let's say that you are UTG with AK. How many bets do you go on the flop with the nuts? This is not a silly question. If UTG does NOT hold at least one spade (presuming he has AK), then it's possible that I am on a freeroll against him, also with the nuts, but with the spade redraw. This kind of situation comes up A LOT in Omaha, where it is quite easy to flop the nuts with and without redraws. Putting in your money with the nuts on the flop without redraws to an obvious draw can be suicide.

So, how many bets do you go on the flop with the nuts and no spade?

How many bets do you go on this flop with a set?

River action aside, what range of hands do you put UTG on on the turn?

#13 10-23-2005, 02:55 AM

Opponent's most likely hand is QQ (because of what he said, as much as in spite).

Borodog · #14 10-23-2005, 03:01 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Borodog,
I am no expert of this game and am just getting my feet wet in the 2-4 game. But here is my 2 cents worth. Please advise if my thinking is incorrect.

On the Flop UTG does not want the board paired. Okay if we believe him than he has AK for the straight. Lets move to the turn...

Turn you Raise and he just calls. If he has QQ and was misleading you on the flop then I would think he would have raised once more with the nut full house (baring that quads is out there potentially) and see where he stands. If he has 10-10 He may raise again to see where he stands.

[/ QUOTE ]

He would crap his pants with the raising if he had TT on the turn.

[ QUOTE ]
If he believes you have a full house and he has AK [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] the 10 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] is his only out and you mentioned he is a good player most of the time, so I would have thought on the turn if he had AK [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] most likely he would have folded and respected the full house out there with the only one out for the flush to win the 10 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

You've neglected something. He can't fold the turn. Do you see why?

[ QUOTE ]
With this all being said, my thought when the 10 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] hits on the river and he bets, I would have raised once putting him on QQ or 10-10 first of, second i would put him on AK anything and trying to buy the pot with the aggressive bet, and lastly I would put him on AK [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] for the royal.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is no way this player doesn't get a raise it on the turn with a full house. "Buy the pot" ? An "aggressive bet" ? What hand, given my action, am I EVER folding for 1 bet on the river? Chance of picking up this pot for 1 bet on the river: 0%. I believe he would know this.

By the way, I have thought up a plausible argument for his bet here that does not involve him having a royal flush. I'd like to see if anyone else comes up with the same line of thinking before I present it though.

halis123456789 · #15 10-23-2005, 05:52 AM

i'm thinking QQ too. he's not stupid, but he opened his mouth for a reason. probably figured this line would get more out of you on the river. hopefully it did cause you've got this.

at 4 bets on the river, i would definitely remind him there's no cap and make it 5. if he made it 6 what the heck i guess i'd just call.

chuddo · #16 10-23-2005, 05:59 AM

i go 12 bets.

this thread is terrible.

private joker · #17 10-23-2005, 07:59 AM

Not raising quads is generally a leak. Come on. Whenever I play live, the guy who says "no more hearts!" wants a heart. The guy who says "don't pair the board!" wants to pair the board.

If he was so scared of the board pairing, why did he bet the turn when it did? If he had AK and was that terrified of a boat, he'd check-call down once the J hit.

I could see you just calling a 3-bet because of the possible royal, but just calling the first bet? I don't get it.

Also, what casino spreads 11-handed games???

newhizzle · #18 10-23-2005, 09:08 AM

[ QUOTE ]
This is a just a local cardroom in NC.

[/ QUOTE ]

i didnt know there were cardrooms in NC, was this a home game or an actual cardroom

(im in NC too)

i think id raise, it would be hard for me not to with quads, but i dont know how far i go

with a jackpot, i go all the way

thejameser · #19 10-23-2005, 09:51 AM

wtf?

#20 10-23-2005, 09:56 AM

why does he have to put you on quads. you are thinking he was playing AK but that is what he might put you on. you could have 3 bet pf with AK and wanted to cap the flop with the straight. so maybe he is betting river because he thinks his boat is good