JJ monotone flop

What's your flop line here? I think the way I played it is very questionable. I couldn't decide how many outs to assign to my draw. All thoughts and comments welcome.

Reads
MP has loose/passive stats 45/4/0.7 after ~300 hands

CO has TAG stats 18/9/3 after ~450 hands. From what I had seen, his postflop was decent.


Party Poker 5.00/10.00 Hold'em <font color="#0000FF">(10 handed)</font> link

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls, Button calls.

Flop: (12.40 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, Hero folds, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls.

[Brom]

I'd play it the same. It is way too likely that someone has an ace, maybe even QQ.

There is also a good chance that someone has a bigger [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] than yours along with an Ace. These two things (Ace and higher club) aren't necessarily in the same hand either. It looks like you are drawing to one out, maybe even dead.

If a Jack or club comes off, what would you do? Unless the club was King or Queen I'd probably still be check calling, and this is not a good way to go through the hand. Wait for a better spot IMO.

[Moozh]

Yeah, looks fine.

[Nick C]

I'm not crazy about the flop or my flush draw, but I think I would have led.

[shant]

I think leading would have made this flop easier to play.

[Brom]

Lead and fold to a raise? Seems like a garbage play to me. One might as well hope it's checked around then lead the turn.

Other options are: lead and call a raise, which is sure to lose you the max when behind given the rest of the hand. Lead and 3-bet is certainly spewing.

I'm just curious where you go after leading is all I'm getting at?

[Nick C]

[ QUOTE ]
Lead and fold to a raise? Seems like a garbage play to me. One might as well hope it's checked around then lead the turn.

Other options are: lead and call a raise, which is sure to lose you the max when behind given the rest of the hand. Lead and 3-bet is certainly spewing.

I'm just curious where you go after leading is all I'm getting at?

[/ QUOTE ]

A lead gives you a chance to fold out a hand like K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] or maybe even Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (if Button didn't cap with that).

If I get raised and the pot becomes heads-up, I'll figure I probably just got raised by top pair or a big club (and hopefully not both) and call, planning to go to the river.

If the pot remains multiway, well, that's uncomfortable. A raise followed by a 3-bet would drive me out immediately. After a raise and a cold-call, I would probably call, planning to check-fold the turn if I didn't catch a set or a club (hopefully the K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] or Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], but if I catch the king I'm still going to be worried about the queen and vice-versa).

After a call and then a raise by the PFR, I'll admit I'm not happy, and I don't know what I'm up against (though the PFR likely has an ace). I'd call the flop, I guess, but I'm not necessarily putting money in on the turn.

[KDawgCometh]

[ QUOTE ]
I think leading would have made this flop easier to play.

[/ QUOTE ]

and calling a raise, folding for a three bet. OP, you do realize that you have the J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] right, that would make me want to continue for a bit if its cheap enough

Yeah, I agree leading makes the flop considerably easier to play. Though, I'm not a big fan on leading because:

-It's likely I'm behind, and it seems inevitable I'll be raised.

-I'll very rarely fold out any superior hands, or strong drawing hands. QQ can be discounted heavily as TAG caps that pf. As for KQ no [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], I highly doubt this flop will be checked through, and thus think hands like this will fold regardless of my play.

-My draw isn't very strong and has domination problems.

-Leading commits me to calling a raise.


With that being said, I felt very uneasy about check/folding in this big pot.