Flop top two pair into large field

AngelicPenguin · #1 01-15-2005, 03:33 AM

I was hoping for a bet from LP, so I could check-raise. Should I have bet this flop?

BB is 15/0/1.67 through 19 hands

Paradise Poker 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. Hero posts a blind of $0.25.
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, CO calls, Button calls, Hero (poster) checks, BB checks.

Flop: (8 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (8 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, CO checks, Button checks.

Turn: (4 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (8 players)
Hero bets, BB calls, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, CO folds, Button calls.

River: (8 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, BB raises, MP2 folds, Button calls, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 14 BB

CWsports · #2 01-15-2005, 03:59 AM

Bet the flop. You have top 2 pair on a rainbow flop with 7 other players. I don't know why you would want to check raise a late player. That just causes everyone everyone between you and late player to call 2 cold which gives them more reason to fold. With top two pair and an uncoordinated board you want as many bets in the pot as possible.

davelin · #3 01-15-2005, 04:06 AM

Did you complete the SB? Looks like you posted (but in the SB?)

Not betting the flop was really bad.

SoCalPat · #4 01-15-2005, 04:08 AM

First off, how are you posting in the SB and getting a free play? Paradise won't let people come in on the SB, making them wait until the button.

Also, the pot size on each street doesn't make any sense. There's 4 BB in the pot on the turn, and only 3 players called your turn bet. Yet when the river's dealt, there's 8 BBs in the pot.

As for the hand, I don't think you can go for a C/R until you can get a bead on how the field will act on the turn.

Therefore, you must bet the flop. If you lost, this is where you likely lost it (if you're up against a flopped set, your opponent played it miserably). Your hand can become easily counterfeited, and with the pot this big, you don't want to risk a turn card hitting that gives longshot draws on the flop a reason to see the river. And it won't take much -- pretty much any card will do, given you have seven opponents.

You hit a perfect flop, and this is an instance in which your lack of position is actually a good thing. You can bet the flop (people will call here with anything -- gutshots, overcards, 88, etc.) and then go for the C/R on the turn.

The turn is a perfect card, as the only hand you could possibly be behind is A4 or A9. Someone out there's playing A-rag and you'll make them pay.

CWsports · #5 01-15-2005, 04:08 AM

ya, I was going to say fold preflop until I saw that he posted

davelin · #6 01-15-2005, 04:09 AM

[ QUOTE ]
First off, how are you posting in the SB and getting a free play? Paradise won't let people come in on the SB, making them wait until the button.

Also, the pot size on each street doesn't make any sense. There's 4 BB in the pot on the turn, and only 3 players called your turn bet. Yet when the river's dealt, there's 8 BBs in the pot.

As for the hand, I don't think you can go for a C/R until you can get a bead on how the field will act on the turn.

Therefore, you must bet the flop. If you lost, this is where you likely lost it (if you're up against a flopped set, your opponent played it miserably). Your hand can become easily counterfeited, and with the pot this big, you don't want to risk a turn card hitting that gives longshot draws on the flop a reason to see the river. And it won't take much -- pretty much any card will do, given you have seven opponents.

You hit a perfect flop, and this is an instance in which your lack of position is actually a good thing. You can bet the flop (people will call here with anything -- gutshots, overcards, 88, etc.) and then go for the C/R on the turn.

The turn is a perfect card, as the only hand you could possibly be behind is A4 or A9. Someone out there's playing A-rag and you'll make them pay.

[/ QUOTE ]

Going into the turn there is 4BB correctly stated. There was 8 SB into the flop which was checked. So then 4BB into the turn which was bet and called by 3 others which made it 8BB going into the river.

CWsports · #7 01-15-2005, 04:11 AM

[ QUOTE ]
First off, how are you posting in the SB and getting a free play? Paradise won't let people come in on the SB, making them wait until the button.

Also, the pot size on each street doesn't make any sense. There's 4 BB in the pot on the turn, and only 3 players called your turn bet. Yet when the river's dealt, there's 8 BBs in the pot.

4BB + Hero Bets (1BB) + 3 callers (3BB) = 8 BB

AngelicPenguin · #8 01-15-2005, 04:17 AM

Thanks for the reply. I'm not sure how I screwed that up, but I was the SB and completed; I didn't post.

FWIW, one of the bunch of people I let get a free turn card had A4. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

Now I know what to do next time, though!

davelin · #9 01-15-2005, 04:19 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the reply. I'm not sure how I screwed that up, but I was the SB and completed; I didn't post.

FWIW, one of the bunch of people I let get a free turn card had A4. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

Now I know what to do next time, though!

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd also not complete this hand in the SB.

Womble · #10 01-15-2005, 10:10 AM

With 2 pair, never consider giving a free card. You may want to call if you have bottom two pair on a fluh/straight draw board with 3+ opponents but not top pair.

A bet may not have driven out the A4 in such a large pot but you will win this hand alot of the time on any turn/river cards. You are betting for value on the flop