JJ, more like AK am i rite

brazilio · #1 10-21-2005, 02:03 AM

BB is a TAG, standard 23/17 after 160 hands or so. SB is a loosish calling station.
Party Poker 5/10 6-max (5 players)

Hero is UTG+1 with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
1 fold, Hero raises, 1 fold, SB calls, BB 3-bets, Hero caps, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (12 SB)

SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, SB folds, BB raises, Hero 3-bets and folds the turn UI if he caps or if he does something retarded on the turn

college_boy · #2 10-21-2005, 02:16 AM

Do you really think your hand holds up against a TAG's range here?

wackjob · #3 10-21-2005, 02:22 AM

I'd probably call and fold the turn w/o another J, but even this feels fishy.

Jerkass333 · #4 10-21-2005, 02:29 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Do you really think your hand holds up against a TAG's range here?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think it's for value, but rather trying to fold QQ or KK. I don't like the play too much, but his opp is the type who can fold those hands on this board to pressure like this.

Jgents · #5 10-21-2005, 02:30 AM

Does he fast play a pair of Aces (or any top pair for that matter) or does he wait for the turn to pop you? This is an important read & without such read, I simply call down, dos veces, twice. I don't get the whole raising a TAg who 3-bet your UTG+1 opener from late position thingie preflop then c/r you on flop. If you want him to lay down qq-kk something like that, then you may want to 3 bet his flop c/r,; i've seen plenty of times TT-KK c/r an ace flop just to see where they are and even folding after being raised, but this is expert play and im pretty drunk right now to elaborate further or im really stupid with words=(

Even if you assing villain a range of 99+, AQs+, Ako, your equity is almost 50% on that board with narly JJ.

college_boy · #6 10-21-2005, 02:32 AM

I don't see this "working" enough to be profitable. He has an ace a lot here. And when he doesn't he's going to showdown with KK and QQ most of the time.

waffle · #7 10-21-2005, 02:36 AM

Interesting bluff. When the BB raises there are 7.5 BB in the pot. Your bluff will risk 2 BB to win 8 BB. (if we assume he never folds to the flop 3bet.) So for it to be more profitable than immediately folding to the flop raise it must work 20% of the time.

For it to work we have a 2-part parlay:

1. Villian doesn't have an A
2. Villian will fold his hand

Some villians, even with these stats, will refuse to fold their KK in this situation. If this is the case, it is def. spewing. However I like it here. I'd like it more with a read.

This post doesn't contain anything you don't already know but I felt like posting it anyway. =P

Jgents · #8 10-21-2005, 02:38 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't see this "working" enough to be profitable. He has an ace a lot here. And when he doesn't he's going to showdown with KK and QQ most of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Even though there are 2 of a suit here, this is a pretty damn rageddy board for a Tag that holds an ace and wants to extract value. As I said before, some people fastplay their top pairs on boards like these and some wait until the turn to pop. If you happen to have somewhat of a read of who do and who don't, then you can exploit this. Folding JJ-KK on ace high flops with the right bets against the right people works a percentage of time that cannot be ignore. IS this such a spot? Dunno. But I was thinking out loud, and I'm sucking right now because on my mental state. I',m just gonna log off. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]