Flop and Turn decision 99...

[DcifrThs]

40 game ive been playin frequently lately...very loose agro LMPplayer opens...unknown player w/ 10k on the table 3 bets i call my sb w/ 99. 3 of us for 10sbs.

flop is J73rb. checked to the pfr who bets. i decide to call likely betting out or c'ring the turn depending on what it is. LMP calls.

turn is 8s which puts a 2 flush out there. i c'r the pf 3 bettor, LMP folds, he calls.

i check the river Qs.

-Barron

[slavic]

What's the chance that you could unhook LMP on the flop? I realize he's not the one you really want out, but still if he leaves a fair amount of the time to a double bet, I think you have to take it.

I'm still trying to get my mind around the preflop call. I've done it before in a game with overs, but my implide odds were huge. I don't know I so want to say raise or fold, I want to raise to stick it to the isolator, but then again I get the bonus of crappy position with an unknown and a crazy player. uhg.

BTW I'm neutral to the flop, like the turn and river play.

[steveyz]

I think the hand becomes easier to play if you 4-bet pre-flop. Given that you didn't, your line is ok, although most of the time I'd prefer just c/ring the flop. Were you folding to a river bet?

[DrGutshot]

The river check seems hardly questionable given your flop and turn line. I hope you were planning on folding to a bet.

I think your flop line is read dependent according to how likely it is you'll get it heads up with the 3bettor. Is the OPFR likely to muck something like KQ or AT to a c/r? If so I think that's the street to checkraise. Then, if the button 3bets, you can reevaluate on the turn and decide to fold (which I'd probably do 70% of the time) if he follows through or call down. I'd fold to a turned overcard nearly 100% of the time if he 3bet the flop and followed the turn.

Now that I think about it though, the flop c/r line does make you vulnerable to a turn raise - despite this weakness though, I think it's still best to knock out the OPFR asap.

-DrG

[rigoletto]

[ QUOTE ]
The river check seems hardly questionable given your flop and turn line. I hope you were planning on folding to a bet.

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I don't think he can, or should, fold here.

an unknown 3 bet and your calling with 99?? save money and fold preflop. On the flop, I really do not like your check and call strategy, it is absolutely vital, that you prevent the LMPplayer from pealing this flop with his possible two overcards to your 99's, so this is a must checkraise. Given the way you played it, I like your turn line, and I like your river check, as long as youre calling. I realize that if you check this river after you showed so much strength on the turn, and your opponent bets, that you are gonna feel retarded calling, but you will be getting 11-1, against an unknown, who may be making a desperate river bluff with AK or betting some weird hand like 55, you simply have to call. I know youre probably thinking that how can AK or a hand like 55 call your turn checkraise, so I admit that all you can beat on this river is a hand that makes no sense at all, but getting 11-1 against an unknown I think you should call.

[stoxtrader]

I also like a cap PF as you face the original raiser with a decision and it is great to get this HU. conversely, just calling to see if he caps also give you info, but makes it more likely to be 3 or 4 way.

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
I also like a cap PF as you face the original raiser with a decision and it is great to get this HU. conversely, just calling to see if he caps also give you info, but makes it more likely to be 3 or 4 way.

[/ QUOTE ]

original raiser is simply not folding. the reason to cap would be to fold the bb a larger % of the time.

to do that, we forfeit the info gleaned from original raiser's action, bloat the pot, and give relative position back to those IN position. idont like doing that, justnot my style. especially w/ a hand like 99 where you can c'r people out of the action in a smaller pot. like what i almost did here, but decided against it. which is why i posted the hand.

further, what hands does the BB call 2 cold with not closing the action that he folds to a cap? i dont remember who the bb was here.

i think this hand vs. these guys is close to a cap than a fold though pf. specifically the original raiser. change his pf raising standards and it quickly moves closer to a fold than either a call or a cap.

Barron

[steveyz]

My reason for a pf cap would not be to fold out BB or the original raiser, although that would be nice. It is sort of for momentum and sort of for folding equity. Many times in these LP raise/3-bet/SB or BB cap situations, I see the capper taking it down on the flop. The range of hands that your opponents may have is so wide that I don't think it's wise to see a flop and then decide. A majority of the time, there will be overcard(s) and you won't have a set, and you will have no clue where you stand. Are you check raising an KJ8 flop? How about QT7? or A63?

Also note that it's not as if you have great relative position postflop. You would be next to act after the 3-bettor. So it's not as if you can see how your other opponents react to a sure flop bet.

If your opponents are very aggressive and will put you to the test anyways postflop even if you cap, then just calling preflop would be ok.

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
Also note that it's not as if you have great relative position postflop. You would be next to act after the 3-bettor. So it's not as if you can see how your other opponents react to a sure flop bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

thats what i assume relative position is. next to act after the pfraiser in a non HU pot. you get to act next and decide whether to face the field w/ 2 bets or 1.

w/ a hand like a made pair that is vulnerable, thats where you want to be.

Barron