unneeded desperation

[joao_,martins]

I am playing a live MTT at a local casino.
Blinds 600/1200. 25 people left, final 10 gets paid.
I've got 18k, good enough for second in chips at my table, with the chipleader at around 22k.
UTG has played tight all day and has recently gone on an aggression streak ( he has raised the past 3 hands all-in and won uncontested ).
UTG limps this hand with around 7200 total.
MP limps with 8900 who has yet to play a hand since she recently sat down at my table.
MP+1 limps with around 10k who is a very loose player.
I am CO with J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]- 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and I limp.
SB completes with around 12k.
BB checks with about 4k.
FLOP:
Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]- J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]- 9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
UTG bets 2k.
MP raises to 7700 all-in.
MP+1 folds.
And I decide to fold... deciding that I was either dominated or either player had quite a few outs to outdraw me and take a big chunk of my chips.
*Would this be the correct move most of the times?
Anyhow, UTG called and he flipped over K-Q and MP flips over A-Q ( which I never would have put her on ). The turn was another nine and i would have practically sealed the deal as there would be only one queen left to beat mny hand. Needless to say the river was not a queen and I would have taken in 19700 more chips.

Next hand, I felt some sort of desperation over me making that fold... and I decide to try to blind steal with Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]- 5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
I open-raise to 4k.
CO who has 22k calls me ( which was the last thing i wanted ). CO was playing pretty tight pre-flop, but would call outlandish sized bets on mediocre draws and often hit... that is how he built his stack.
Everyone else folds.

FLOP:
Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]- 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]- 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

What do you bet here, if you bet at all? And if you dont go all-in and he raises must you call due to pot size and how many chips I put in?

[JustPlayingSmart]

I would push the flop with the bottom 2. Chances are pretty good that UTG folds, and you're probably ahead with bottom 2, though it is obviously a vulnerable hand.

Hand 2: If I raise preflop, I would push the flop. You're probably ahead, and villain may not even have a club. The chances that he has you beat and has a better draw are very low (would need KKc, AAc, flush, or QxYc with Y>5).

[nightlyraver]

For the first hand, I believe that WITHOUT A GOOD READ you made a good laydown. First, I believe UTG WILL come along for the ride. If there is a reasonable chance that he will fold, then you should move all-in in this spot as you are probably 50/50 against the reraiser's likely range and there is lots of dead money. However, given the stack sizes I think there is no chance of UTG folding. That said, I think I'm putting both Villians on the following range: 99+,AQs,AdTd,Ad9d,KdQd,KTs,QTs,T8s,8d7d,AQo,KTo,QT o,T8o
Against this range in 2 spots, you are only about 25% to win so you are not getting the right price - but not by all that much. Against this range in 1 spot, you are 50/50 and that's why I said above that you should move in if you think UTG will fold a reasonable number of times.

In the second hand, I think that Q5o is a little too weak to try a steal with. I prefer a Q with at least an 8 kicker to steal. Anyway, once you see that flop you should go after it. I would bet t5,000 in this spot and expect to win the pot outright most of the time. If CO moves in, you're actually priced out of the pot I believe and you will still have enough chips to fight with. I would tend to think that the only type of hand you will want to see when the CO moves in is something like KcJh, and that's honestly at the bottom of his range.

[nightlyraver]

1) Chances are probably ZERO that UTG folds - look back at the stack sizes. That is why folding is probably best since you are a big dog against both players.

2) Why push? Better to bet a normal, continuation bet. Is CO raising as a bluff? The OP does not really support this conclusion. Is CO value raising with anything that we are only a small dog to? Almost certianly not. Will a push cause CO to fold a reasonable number of better hands that he otherwise would have called with if Hero bets less? The OP may support this conclusion, but that's an awefull lot of stock placed on a pretty weak read IMHO.

[CieloAzor]

I'm not real keen on the advice so far. I think the first hand is an easy and trivial call/push. Folding isn't something I'd even consider in that spot. With less than 10 big blinds, it's surprising their hands were even as good as AQ/KQ.

The steal raise is Hand 2 is probably ill-advised, but not horrible. After the flop, you likely have the best hand and are unlikely to have the worst hand AND worst draw. With 10k in the pot and 13k left in your stack, this is a push.

[joao_,martins]

The first hand was a very tough decision. I factored in whether or not UTG would fold or not and I came to believe that he would fold to me pushing in more than half of the times... but I was still paranoid that his weak bet when he hardly had enough to match the pot was a bet to bring people along. his bet is what made me fold... along with not wanting to risk that many chips being either way behind or a slight favorite.

The second hand was rough. I had the only person at the table with more chips than me come into the pot... and I was playing small bet poker all day, never having to go all-in once for a pot.
I ended up pushing for the pot believing that most of the time I'd be ahead even if I was called, even though I did not want a call. We'll my opponent called and he had one of two only possible hands I think he could have held in the range of hands i put him on to beat me... along with that a higher club for me pretty much holding on to 3 outs... K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]- Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].

Even though my fold the first hand was the wrong one I still came to believe that I would be right in folding that most of the times. The second hand however I was upset that I didn't make a continuation bet, in which would allow me to maybe fold to a raise ( esp since this player was playing predictable and not overly fast with his big draws, just loose ).