A very tough read for me and possible leak, can you help?

#1 12-12-2005, 01:55 AM

As i saw it, his raise from early early position meant something premium, from AA-QQ AK maybe JJ maybe AQ. His calling of my Reraise meant the more premium of the hands, minus AQ. The smallblind, being involved in a lot of pots, was probably trying to catch a set. When the flop came, and the betting ensued, i was really scared of the small blind's cold call. Possibly AKs maybe ridiculous QJ suited, who knows. But the all-in from UTG. KK could make this play, so could AA, and of course QQ. If he were making a move with suited connectors and is making a move with a flush draw (not likely) well then that factors in too. I'm not sure what the most profitable (loss minimizing) play would be.

Would a check here be reasonable with a cold-call sb and reraise-calling UTG? That may induce a bluff in certain situations and compensate for some of the loss in that kind of situation. Should i have folded when SB sipmly called, and UTG went all in ? I mean UTG could have KK AQ flush draw but SB's call could also be a set. Any discussion on this topic would be greatly appreciated.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

UTG+1 ($20.05)
Hero ($100)
MP2 ($84.30)
CO ($79.80)
Button ($87.20)
SB ($57.90)
BB ($41.20)
UTG ($71.60)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG raises to $3, 1 fold, Hero raises to $6, 3 folds, SB calls $5.50, 1 fold, UTG calls $3.

Flop: ($19) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets $10, SB calls $10, UTG raises to $65.6, Hero calls $55.60, SB folds.

Turn: ($160.20) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)

River: ($160.20) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)

Final Pot: $160.20

EMcWilliams · #2 12-12-2005, 02:05 AM

Min raise isnt the best idea, first off. I would re-pop to about 8 in that spot. UTG has a wide range of holdings, but CR all in probably means either AQ of diamonds or perhaps KK-QQ. Without a read I think I fold here.

deaders · #3 12-12-2005, 02:07 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Min raise isnt the best idea, first off. I would re-pop to about 8 in that spot. UTG has a wide range of holdings, but CR all in probably means either AQ of diamonds or perhaps KK-QQ. Without a read I think I fold here.

[/ QUOTE ]

If the check-raise means that then you are beating two of those three hands (AQ and KK), why wouldnt you want to get your money in? Would you totally rule out him making this play with say, AJ diamonds as well?

jsnipes28 · #4 12-12-2005, 02:27 AM

Raise more preflop. I usually make it 10-13, but against a short stack 8-10 might be ok in order to not scare him off. SB could be calling for set value but you will see AdQd, AQo, KdQd and a number of other random holdings here often enough, particularly since u min-reraised, to call since you are calling 55 into a 105 pot. I would be more inclined to call however if i held Ad for diamond redraw/suckout.
If you raise more preflop the rest of this hand becomes easier to play, however, and SB's call preflop is not profitable long run and you can easily put him in on the flop without having to worry about him having a set. Also, most idiots w/ 50bb's will not be laying down TP in this situation.

aces_dad · #5 12-12-2005, 02:30 AM

I'd 3X his bet pf to 9, you want this HU vs the original raiser. As is without a read provided his hand range is larger than what you mention, many players raise those you've mentioned UTG as well as hands like A10+, 8's+. Most of those hands would call the min-reraise as well. I don't see why you think AQ folds to your minraise especially after SB has called as well.

SB's smooth call of the flop doesn't indicate a set, given a 2 flush flop most players raise with a set there.

Much depends upon your read of UTG. If he's a donk this is an easy call. If he's tough he's probably got you beat. Most c/r A/I on the flop are draws / weak made hands that don't want to get called, as the strongest of hands typicaly want to get called and thus don't push.

#6 12-12-2005, 08:09 AM

Yeah i agree, and that is probably part of the problem, my amnt of raise. Just to clear things up though, this is not the minimum raise.. Since I was last to act, I really wanted to try and mix it up a bit with the raise amnts, not expecting any sb/bb to call. I wanted him to feel like being aggressive on the flop when he gets an overpair or top pair.

A raise of 3x his raise is what I usually do, and would help to define what's going on, i agree, although if you pay close attention this is really 2.5x his raise... A

wdeadwyler · #7 12-12-2005, 09:00 AM

From your responses,analysis, and play I do not think you are ready for 100nl. This is not meant to be anything but constructive criticism, so here it goes.

Generally, when you reraise preflop, you want to raise anywhere from 2x-3x THE POT depending on your position. Your raise should be based on the amount in the pot not on the last persons's bet amount. With that said, once you make a proper reraise preflop, it will be VERY difficult to get rid of the hand on this flop, as you would have to put him on QQ and QQ alone to fold this flop.

I would have made it 10 preflop and potted the flop then taken it from there. If after I reraised to 10, SB still called, and UTG pushed preflop, I push behind him. With the villain's stacks this short there is no reason not to get all the money in on the flop as a no-brainer.

PinkSteel · #8 12-12-2005, 09:04 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Generally, when you reraise preflop, you want to raise anywhere from 2x-3x THE POT depending on your position.

[/ QUOTE ]

Generally agree with previous post. On the above, when I reraise I usually go 4x the last bet, regardless of pot size. Probably works out about the same, but curious what math others do on a reraise.

djoyce003 · #9 12-12-2005, 09:46 AM

yeah I wouldn't necessarily raise 2x-3x the pot. I'd probably make it more geared to the last bet. Say there is a raise to $4 and 3 coldcalls, i'm not raising to 48. I'm likely raising to $18-$20.

As to this hand...your preflop reraise completely sucks. If you aren't willing to make it $9-$10 here minimum you are fundamentally playing wrong, maybe at a limit to high for you to be comfortable...not sure.

Your flop bet is sooooooo weak. The problem with your flop bet is that we have no freaking clue where we are because you made such a small bet. Had you potted it and faced a push, then you have represented exactly AA, and he said I don't care....in this instance, you represented a whiffed AK in my opinion, and he could be pushing with AQ here, JJ maybe even. Since you made such a crappy flop bet, I don't have a problem with the call because you've induced a bluff from a few hands as well as a the push from QQ. I can't see him wanting to fold you out with QQ here anyway so i'm not sure that's a very likely hand for him. I think he has KK. Don't worry about SB here, you never raised enough to get him out and he's likely chasing. If I had the flush draw here and I thought the other player was just going to call the flop bet I'd probably take a card off too...if he calls the SB is getting pretty good odds to hit the flush. You are worrying about monsters if you think he has the set.

Almost forgot - an UTG raise doesn't necessarily mean a monster, and any two cards that raised are calling your min-raise so don't go thinking that he's got a premium hand. If you had made a REAL reraise, then you could safely put him on an ultra-premium hand. Since you made a fish-like minraise, you can safely put him on any two cards.

wdeadwyler · #10 12-12-2005, 10:36 AM

[ QUOTE ]
yeah I wouldn't necessarily raise 2x-3x the pot. I'd probably make it more geared to the last bet. Say there is a raise to $4 and 3 coldcalls, i'm not raising to 48. I'm likely raising to $18-$20.
If there is a raise to $4 and 3 cold calls, then there is 16 in the pot. Making it 30 to go is the right move here with a hand like AA, esp in position.

Not lets say we have QQ in the SB, UTG makes it 2, button calls, so there is 4.75 in the pot, I like to make it 10 in this spot, because playing QQ OOP sucks. So I mean to say that I raise 2x the POT preflop, not the last raise.