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#1
10-22-2005, 03:51 PM
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Checking behind on river = LEAK
Inspired by another thread going on, here's a hand I played last nite where I checked behind on the river and likely missed value. Villian and I have played 1000's of hands together. He's tricky, very tricky solid player. Lets others do the betting for him, then pounces on the river with the nuts.
.50/$1 NLHE Full Table, 9-handed Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] . SB posts a blind of $0.50, Villian posts a blind of $1. UTG calls $1, UTG+1 calls $1, Villian checks, Hero calls $1, 2 folds, Button calls $1, SB completes, BB checks. Flop: ($6.75) T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="blue"> (7 players) </font> Checks to Hero, Hero bets $7, folds to BB who calls, Villian calls, all else fold. Turn: ($26.75) 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="blue"> (3 players) </font> BB checks, Villian checks, Hero bets $25, BB folds, Villian calls $25. River: ($75) 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="blue"> (2 players) </font> Villian checks, Hero checks. J8 gets there on the end. And that's it. He posted so it's possible. And unless he slowplayed a set, I am ahead. He knows I often check behind on the river, so he should be betting anything there that beats me. And he should be calling a reasonable bet by me on the river with alot of hands that I beat. We discuss alot of leaks around here that have to do with bluffing, overplaying draws, getting to river showdowns with TPGK when the preceding action screams that we are beat. But, IMO a big leak I/We have is missing value with made hands. That's one place I am really trying to improve on. I kicked myself afterwards, because I should clearly be betting on the end here. I won the hand (he didn't show), and a nice pot. And maybe that's part of the reason we don't worry so much about this leak. We win nice pots and move on. Maybe we don't look at it as losing $$$ like we do with bluffing, but we are leaving $$$ on the table. Discussion welcome. 
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#2
10-22-2005, 03:52 PM
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Re: Checking behind on river = LEAK
k, im never reading the SSNL forum again... i want 2 die right now.
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#3
10-22-2005, 03:55 PM
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Re: Checking behind on river = LEAK
Well, if it makes you feel any better I would probably have checked too. I would expect 2 pair on a drawish flop not to be played so passivly. I know you said he likes to get other player to do the betting for him, but even with a vulnerable hand on a drawish board OOP like this?
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#4
10-22-2005, 03:59 PM
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Re: Checking behind on river = LEAK
u know this already, but there is no reason not to throw a 1/3-2/3 pot in on the river. this is much different than the QQ hand imo. u have a sexy hand, in position, against a villain that is smart enough to vb his hands on the river.
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#5
10-22-2005, 04:04 PM
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Re: Checking behind on river = LEAK
[ QUOTE ]
then pounces on the river with the nuts. [/ QUOTE ] yeah wait a second, you mean pounce as a in checkraise, or as in lead?
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#6
10-22-2005, 04:09 PM
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Re: Checking behind on river = LEAK
[ QUOTE ]
k, im never reading the SSNL forum again... i want 2 die right now. [/ QUOTE ] With comments like these, you will surely be missed around here. Good luck in the other forums. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]
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#7
10-22-2005, 04:12 PM
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Re: Checking behind on river = LEAK
[ QUOTE ]
yeah wait a second, you mean pounce as a in checkraise, or as in lead? [/ QUOTE ] Big Sexy C/R pounce. He flopped a set a few orbits later, c/c'd to the river, the c/r'd the river with a push that got called. He's goofy tricky. I should have bet here anyway because I shouldn't fear this.
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#8
10-22-2005, 04:13 PM
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Re: Checking behind on river = LEAK
[ QUOTE ]
u know this already, but there is no reason not to throw a 1/3-2/3 pot in on the river. this is much different than the QQ hand imo. u have a sexy hand, in position, against a villain that is smart enough to vb his hands on the river. [/ QUOTE ] what about 333 in this hand is different from QQ on the board with a low pair? (that's a rhetorical question with an implied answer of nothing). think about it. just because something is a set and another is an overpair, we're still beating the same sh*t. that being said, bet the river. you know that. also post stack sizes. you should value bet much less with tricky opponents with deep stacks. good day. edit: if he's tricky, one fun thing to do is to value bet like 1/4 of the pot to get him to call with a T or c/r bluff a missed draw. but that means you're calling a c/r, obviously.
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