My lone post about PE/Party/whiners/business logic

[sfer]

Taken from an AIM conversation with sthief09:

[14:50] sfer: I [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] the PE bitching in the Zoo. I love that the hugely weak Zoo players are totally up in arms.
[14:50] sthief09: im pissed too
[14:51] sthief09: about it
[14:51] sfer: Why?
[14:52] sthief09: cause im selfish
[14:52] sthief09: i mean its fair
[14:52] sthief09: i dont think they should ban the other programs
[14:52] sthief09: but as ive written before, PE completely crosses the line
[14:53] sfer: They won't.
[14:53] sthief09: i dont get the people who group them together
[14:54] sfer: PE sells and redistributes data. That's the difference.
[14:55] sthief09: which is against the T&C
[14:55] sfer: Yes.
[14:55] sfer: There's enough luck in limit poker such that Party really doesn't care about tools like PE, PT, GT, PV.
[14:56] sfer: They just don't want easy to access sites with the appearance of possible cheating or an easy to purchase/implement edge for the fish to see and feel abused.
[14:56] sthief09: yeah
[14:57] sthief09: i just wish theyd put out a published list
[14:57] sfer: In fact, since you're involved in the Zoo debate, you might want to put this AIM snippet up there. It's the issue in a nutshell.
[14:57] sthief09: actually i dont even care
[14:57] sthief09: cause i use euro
[14:57] sfer: They want to kick out/confiscate some of the decent winning players to discourage the development of stuff like PE. It makes the policing easier.
[14:58] sthief09: you post this
[14:58] sfer: Okay. I will

[smb394]

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[14:54] sfer: PE sells and redistributes data. That's the difference.


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[LinusKS]

You couldn't take the time to make an actual post [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[Jaquen H'gar]

You two sound gay. (Not that there's anyting wrong with that). [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[Michael Davis]

"You two sound gay."

Great, now I'm aroused.

-Michael

[Patchmaster]

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PE sells and redistributes data. That's the difference.

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So if this was done as a cooperative effort among all who cared to participate and there was no money or compensation of any kind changing hands, there wouldn't be a problem with it?

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[14:54] sfer: PE sells and redistributes data. That's the difference.


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Absolutely wrong. PE sells access to the crunched results of the data. They don't sell any hand histories and you don't get to save any of the data on your system. Providing a value-added service to publicly available information is completely ethical and the foundation of many businesses in many industries.

I'm absolutely mind-boggled sthief can draw a line at PE, but not PT or other data mining. It's all flavors of the same tool. I think it's purely a selfish thing. He likes PT so he believes PT should be allowed, but he doesn't like PE so therefore it must be over the line.

Then the line about "enough luck in limit that PT/PV/etc" don't matter is complete hipocracy. Enough luck for those dataminers and HUDS (which he likes), but there isn't enough luck for other datamining/hud tools? Sthief has contributed oodles to the forum, it's clear he's very smart and a logical thinker. I just don't get how someone with a history of logical htinking can objectively draw that line and say that "it completely crosses the line" as if it's some black/white issue.

Take a stand on one side or the other.

Oh...if I offer my 80,000 hands of PT data for sale, for say $20, should I be banned from party? I worked to gather it, why can't I sell it to whoever I want? What if I want to give it away?

[SackUp]

how did this bring anything new to the board that wasn't already here??

I usually like your posts...but was this really necessary?

[MisterKing]

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[14:54] sfer: PE sells and redistributes data. That's the difference.


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Absolutely wrong. PE sells access to the crunched results of the data. They don't sell any hand histories and you don't get to save any of the data on your system. Providing a value-added service to publicly available information is completely ethical and the foundation of many businesses in many industries.

I'm absolutely mind-boggled sthief can draw a line at PE, but not PT or other data mining. It's all flavors of the same tool. I think it's purely a selfish thing. He likes PT so he believes PT should be allowed, but he doesn't like PE so therefore it must be over the line.

Then the line about "enough luck in limit that PT/PV/etc" don't matter is complete hipocracy. Enough luck for those dataminers and HUDS (which he likes), but there isn't enough luck for other datamining/hud tools? Sthief has contributed oodles to the forum, it's clear he's very smart and a logical thinker. I just don't get how someone with a history of logical htinking can objectively draw that line and say that "it completely crosses the line" as if it's some black/white issue.

Take a stand on one side or the other.

Oh...if I offer my 80,000 hands of PT data for sale, for say $20, should I be banned from party? I worked to gather it, why can't I sell it to whoever I want? What if I want to give it away?

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This is the most intelligent post on the issue I've seen yet. Agreed in full re: PE as a 100% ethical value added service based on freely available data. As I've said elsewhere, any one person could do everything PE does, if he/she went out and got a truckload of computers, set them to observe 16 tables each all day, and then channeled all the data through a central D/B. The fact that we hire PE to do this for us has no impact on the essential fact that all we're talking about is public information (either raw or processed).

[spamuell]

MisterKing, I can't be bothered to argue about this because I don't see it as being productive, but I thought I'd let you know I agree with you completely.