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#23
08-09-2005, 03:55 PM
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Re: Punish the Limpers? Party $109 hand.
Okay, so this scenario might be a little remote - but check folding doesn't cost you anything extra so why not see the flop and hope for a better +EV situation? I'd rather hope for a cheap, great flop than going all-in with 75s and hoping that none of 4 people who mostly have me covered call (and if you are at 10BBs - you can guess that some of the guys in this pot have 30BBs or more).
The real question is - do your cards matter here? If you think no - then go ahead and push, but if you think like I do that I want to see a flop with a speculative hand like a suited one-gapper then check and hope for a better opportunity later. I don't think there is a right or wrong answer to this question as it really depends on your style and image and the style and image of your opponents. For example I'm not going to be as likely to push against an EP limper who I saw pull a limp-reraise 45 minutes ago, and I'm not going to be as likely to push into players who underplay TT/JJ pre-flop but will then call off their stack when raised. OTOH - if I thought that the table was weak-tight and my image was right then I'd push this with any 2. 
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#24
08-09-2005, 03:56 PM
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Re: Punish the Limpers? Party $109 hand.
I much prefer the push if your hand is 94o than 75s. You're mainly banking on fold equity, so your cards are of little importance. However, with something like 75s that has a good chance to flop a monster or a strong draw, you have a lot to gain by looking at a flop. Pushing kills some of the value of this hand.
I think Sklansky wrote an article explaining this a month or two back. Kings
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#25
08-09-2005, 04:44 PM
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Re: Punish the Limpers? Party $109 hand.
[ QUOTE ]
I much prefer the push if your hand is 94o than 75s. You're mainly banking on fold equity, so your cards are of little importance. However, with something like 75s that has a good chance to flop a monster or a strong draw, you have a lot to gain by looking at a flop. Pushing kills some of the value of this hand. I think Sklansky wrote an article explaining this a month or two back. Kings [/ QUOTE ] I think your line of thinking is correct, but I am not sure about this situation. Basically, when looking at the EV of a push, you have to compare it to the EV of a check. CHecking here definitely has some value. Pushing most likely has some value as well. Plays like this are very image dependent, and it is unlikely that you can pull it off twice in a session. So, if we knew we were going to have this opportunity quite frequently, we would be correct to check, b/c the relative value of the push is less [EV(push)-EV(check)]. BUT...... This situation is really favorable for a push (stack sizes, pot size, etc). We are soon to enter the point of the tournament where pwning limpers is a thing of the past. You just dont see many limpers past the 100/50 level. So, I think you are best served to just pick the higher of two EVs (push-check). My gut tells me it is a push, just b/c most good draws we would flop give us a similar EV to the current push (and they dont flop that often)
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#26
08-09-2005, 05:07 PM
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Re: Punish the Limpers? Party $109 hand.
[ QUOTE ]
The fact that with 2000 chips you can't really steal blinds but with 3000 chips you can easily do it makes this situation even more +EV because of future gains from taking this pot down [/ QUOTE ] With the blinds being 100/200 and a stack of 2k one should be able to steal the blinds.
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#28
08-09-2005, 05:09 PM
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Re: Punish the Limpers? Party $109 hand.
IŽd like to push here something like 1 out of 4 times
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#29
08-09-2005, 05:12 PM
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Re: Punish the Limpers? Party $109 hand.
No offense, I hate responses like that.
This isnt the WPT, no one on party poker is paying enough attention to your previous MTTs to know if yuo make this play often. You are making your play 'perfect' to the point that it is less than optimal for the current situation.
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#30
08-09-2005, 05:13 PM
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Re: Punish the Limpers? Party $109 hand.
[ QUOTE ]
My gut tells me it is a push, just b/c most good draws we would flop give us a similar EV to the current push (and they dont flop that often) [/ QUOTE ] This is why it's a push. The odds of flopping a hand where you have as large an EV as this is awfully low. Basically to get this much EV you need to flop 2 pair, both a straight draw AND a flush draw, trips or maybe a pair and a flush draw. Odds of all those combined: Low.
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