KK in SB into big field?

[Any2ForU]

$6-12 game at the Mirage. Hero in SB with KK. 5 limpers. What do you do?

Would it be better to raise them before the flop, or try to check raise the flop to thin the field? My thinking is that by raising here the only player that I may lose is the big blind and I'm just increasing the pot size to give more drawing hands better odds to draw out on me.

Anyway, I call and BB checks. Seven to the flop.

Flop 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Checks around to late position bet. Folded to hero who raises. BB calls and field folds to original bettor who calls.

Turn: 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Hero bets. Both called

River: 3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Hero bets. BB raises. Folded to Hero. I paid off his 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] full house

Please provide me with some long-term advice about this sort of situation. I seem to struggle with these type of hands. Thanks in advance for your help.

[JohnShaft]

Allow me to unsugarcoat this Any2, and know that I'm a nice person really. Oh and welcome to the Forums on your first post! [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

This Preflop completion (instead of raising) is sickening. I don't want to even remotely sugarcoat it.
There is no postflop rationale that gets even close to regaining the bets you have given up Preflop.

The only way I don't raise here is if someone has a gun pointed at my head. Even then I'd be tempted.

[Bob T.]

Preflop-Raise for value. The best way to punish people with 93 off, is to make it expensive to see the flop. After that, tough luck.

[lil']

Ouch, 2nd post today where someone doesn't raise pre-flop with kings when they have the chance because it "won't get anyone out."

You raise because you want them to call with crap, not to drive them out!

[asdf1234]

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Anyway, I call

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I stopped reading right here. This is utterly wretched, bad, atrocious, inexcusable poker.

[Any2ForU]

I understand the need to get your money in when you're ahead and make inferior hands pay to catch up, but I want to see the statistics on the long term profitibility of each play, including the money saved when an ace flops and you can get away from the hand cheaply. What are the statistics of Kings holding up out of position against 6 other players when they now have odds to call any pair, any gutshot straight draw, and for many new players a million runner, runner possibilities. It would be interesting to see some simulations on both plays long term. I'm still not convinced blindly ploughing your money into the pot is the best long term solution.

[asdf1234]

The point is you're giving up a ridiculous amount of preflop equity that you're not going to be able to make up postflop.

[Haupt_234]

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What are the statistics of Kings holding up out of position against 6 other players when they now have odds to call any pair, any gutshot straight draw, and for many new players a million runner, runner possibilities.

[/ QUOTE ]

Better than any other hand except AA.


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I'm still not convinced blindly ploughing your money into the pot is the best long term solution.

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Read more posts on this forum and you will become quickly, utterly convinced.

Haupt_234

[Bob T.]

You need statistics to prove that getting 6-1 preflop with pocket kings is a good deal? Do you work for the government?

[TBone]

I doubt you're going to find anyone here that has stats on how much money you save when not raising K's and an Ace flops. Truth of the matter is, if a person is holding an Ace, there is a roughly 1 - 5 chance that an Ace will hit on the flop. Considering many will fold their Ace if they don't have a decent kicker, you should most definitely be raising Kings, even into a monster field without position.

Keep in mind you have just over a 10% chance of hitting a set on the flop.

I think your thinking is weak tight man.

T