How do you play second pair?

JC_Saves · #1 08-05-2005, 04:04 PM

I have been wondering how to play the flop and on when I have second pair. I know a lot of times that if I check my opponent will bet and I end up folding. A lot of times I look at the over card as being a lost hand and why put out the chips, but I know that this is wrong, but what is the best method?

Especially when you just limped preflop, what line do you take assuming the following to examples, given that it is you and one other person to see the flop and that your stacks are even or you have less than your opponent:

A: if you have position and there is an overcard to your pair?

B: if you are first to act and there is an overcard to your pair?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (8 handed) converter
saw flop|saw showdown
Button (t1525)
SB (t1170)
BB (t1395)
UTG (t1180)
Hero (t1950)
MP1 (t2670)
MP2 (t1000)
CO (t620)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls t50, Hero calls t50, 4 folds, SB completes, BB checks.
Flop: (t200) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB bets t50, UTG folds, Hero calls t50, SB folds.
Turn: (t300) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players) ?
River: (t300) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players) ?
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t600 (4 handed) converter

saw flop|saw showdown

SB (t6215)
BB (t11015)
UTG (t6968)
Hero (t16302)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG raises to t1800, Hero raises to t3600, 2 folds, UTG calls t1800.

Flop: (t7300) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

?

I just know that I am giving away too many pots by too passive of play.

Lloyd · #2 08-05-2005, 04:17 PM

Obviously, there's no magical formula. If I'm up against multiple opponents I often don't even take a stab at a pot with a middle pair. If it's one opponent, more important then what you have is what they probably have and how their hand range fits in with the flop. If you're heads up and flop middle pair, and think the flop might have missed your opponent, you have a few options. You can check with the intention of either raising or calling and leading the turn. Or you can lead out. If you lead out you'll often be raised. I've been check-calling and leading the turn recently as that's often how I'd play a set. Much of your decision is also based around stack sizes. I certainly wouldn't want to invest a big portion of my stack with a middle pair if I wasn't pretty sure I had the best hand. I might lead out on the flop and see what happens. Anyway, just some random thoughts.

First Hand: You don't just have middle pair here. You have middle pair with the nut flush draw. This is a strong hand. You have 9 good outs and often 5 more. You're usually 50/50 versus a hand like KQ/QJ/KK. When the BB makes that weak little bet I'd go ahead and raise. You might win the pot right then. If not, you'll likely have an option of a free card on the turn. Calling isn't horrible since you're getting good odds but with that bet I think you can win it with a decent size raise.

Second Hand: I'm presuming this is four handed. If not, fold AT unless you think your opponent is on a steal. In a full game you should not usually be re-raising an UTG raise with AT. If it's four handed things change. Since UTG is shortstacked you either have to fold or push. AT four handed is a strong hand and I would push pre-flop unless I had a good read that his small raise meant something big. Basically, with his stack size, you're entire decision should be made pre-flop.

JC_Saves · #3 08-05-2005, 05:52 PM

you are right on the first hand. I was just trying to find some old hands to illustrate what I was talking about. On this hand it is pretty decent with the flush draw to fall back on if I was behind.

the second hand was 4-handed. On this flop since I had him covered by a lot I played very aggressively with him on the flop.

I pretty much play like you outlined. I was just curious if I was missing something out there. More often than not is it getting to the point where the blinds are increasing and I have a hard time committing a lot of chips with a lead out.

Would you just min bet if you did lead out with second pair, with the intent of folding to a reraise?

So often it seems like my opponent will bet a lot more than the minimum and I have to fold. I, of course, note this play and hope to cash in when I flop TPTK or two pair so I can punish them with a check/raise, but I digress.

What do you do on the turn then if it is a blank and they called you on the flop?

What if they bet and you called and then the turn blank comes, or a scare card and they check it?

I do understand fully there are a lot of factors to take into consideration, but lets say stack sizes are comparable and it is just you and one other player.

danger_mouse · #4 08-05-2005, 05:53 PM

Two things to consider when playing 2nd pair: your other card & your read on your opponent.

Other card:
If your other card is a poor kicker, be less apt to play the hand. Your opponent might have top pair, or he might have 2nd pair with better kicker. Too dangerous. If your hand gives also gives you a flush draw (like hand one; or a straight draw) then you definitely play it strong.

Read on your opponent.

This is much harder to give advice on, but much more important in the scheme of things. First off, if you are going to play second pair make certain you're heads up. If not, you're better off mucking. Secondly, if your opponent is apt to try to steal pots on the flop, be more apt to raise him. Thirdly, how does your opponent view you? If you are stealing a lot of pots, be less apt to try to play second pair strong. An observant opponent will often pop you (maybe with air) and you're going to have a hard time playing that second pair.

JC_Saves · #5 08-05-2005, 09:40 PM

thanks for the knowledge, I appreciate it.

adanthar · #6 08-05-2005, 09:43 PM

1)Fold preflop, play your monster draw more aggressively postflop. If BB has Q2o, a raise and a big turn bet will almost always blow him off. You like this.

2)I really hate this 3:1+ giving minimum reraise PF. Push (I like pushing), call, fold (this usually sucks), whatever, just not this. Once you got here, pray and push the flop.