Party Poker implicity condones cheating and unethical behavior

[Pinky]

I recently complained to PP when some $#@@# disconnected himself on purpose and cost me a $15 pot when he made his river card he was too chicken to pay to see. PP agreed that the guy cheated and refunded me the $15 pot.

Another disconnection happenned again. Again, PP agreed the guy cheated but they would not refund me for the $20 pot the guy stole by disconnecting himself. So clearly, PP agreed that the disconnect was not an accident.

I know $20 is not worth bitching about but it's the principle. If they determine someone cheated, the profits should be given back to the victim (me). By not doing so, they are undermining their integrity. Any legit casino would not allow this garbage to occur.

[lorinda]

Any legit casino would not allow this garbage to occur.

They have no DP tables for people like you.

Lori

[Pinky]

So Lori, I guess you're saying that PP doesn't like having honest people play on their site? Too bad for them. Like I said, PP agreed with me that both incidents were cheating. The first time, they refunded me and the second time they didn't. Gotta love consistency.

[lorinda]

I just think it is more likely that you are lying than they are.

What EXACTLY did the second email say?

Also, why do you think anyone gives a crap? Most of the people here break the rules on party every day by getting rake back.

Lori

[Beavis68]

it is part of the game, get used to it, at least you don't have to worry about misdeals and all the human error crap that goes on in a casino. The site owes you nothing.

[Pinky]

Fair enough. Don't merely take my word for it.

Here is the reply I got from the first incident:

> Dear XXXX,
>
> We appreciate you taking the time to report
> situations of alleged disconnect protection abuse at
> PartyPoker.com.
>
> Starting with the hand histories (or hand #s) that
> you sent to us, we performed an investigation that
> would allow us to examine thoroughly the account in
> question; aquila63. We have looked into the players
> records and collected all previous hands in which
> this player used the protection. Our goal was to
> look for a pattern where the player usually
> disconnects in key moments.
>
> Some of the parameters we use when investigating
> possible protection abuse: The player?s cards at
> the time of disconnection. The player?s previous
> action (whether he was betting / raising) and also
> the actions of the other players at the time of
> disconnection. The benefit obtained by a player
> disconnecting The timing of disconnection A players
> pattern of disconnections Previous allegations made
> by other players and/or the system
>
> Using the information listed above we have
> investigated the history of the player thoroughly
> and have found that not only was the hand you
> reported suspicious but this player has shown a
> pattern of suspicious disconnects in the past.
>
> Based on this information we have taken away the
> disconnect protection privilege for this player. In
> the event he is disconnected in the future his hand
> will be folded. We have sent an email to the player
> informing him of the investigation.
>
> We thank you for taking the time to report your
> suspicions. Keeping the games honest is our highest
> priority. If you need any clarifications or have any
> questions or concerns please feel free to contact
> us. We will be more than happy to assist you.
>
> Best Regards,
> Robert Ferguson
> Investigations Team

Then when I complained about the $15, I got this reply:

We thank you for contacting us in this regard. We have added a $15
bonus to your account for the inconvenience caused to you in this regard.

We look forward to see-ing you back on the tables

Contact us anytime, we are available around the clock to assist you
with your account related questions and suggestions.


Here is the reply from the 2nd incident:


Dear XXX

> We appreciate you taking the time to report
> situations of alleged disconnect protection abuse at
> PartyPoker.com.
>
> Starting with the hand histories (or hand #s) that
> you sent to us, we performed an investigation that
> would allow us to examine thoroughly the account in
> question: "dopey09".
>
> We have looked into the players records and
> collected all previous hands in which this player
> used the protection. Our goal was to look for a
> pattern where the player usually disconnects in key
> moments.
>
> Some of the parameters we use when investigating
> possible protection abuse:
> ????o The player's cards at the time of
> disconnection.
> ????o The player's previous action (whether he was
> betting/raising) and also the actions of the other
> players at the time of disconnection.
> ????o The benefit obtained by a player
> disconnecting.
> ????o The timing of disconnection.
> ????o A player's pattern of disconnections.
> ????o Previous allegations made by other players
> and/or the system.
>
> Using the information listed above we have
> investigated the history of the player thoroughly
> and have found that not only was the hand you
> reported suspicious but this player has shown a
> pattern of suspicious disconnects in the past. Based
> on this information we have taken away the
> disconnect protection privilege for this player. In
> the event he is disconnected in the future his hand
> will be folded. We have sent an email to the player
> informing him of the investigation.
>
> We thank you for taking the time to report your
> suspicions. Keeping the games honest is our highest
> priority. If you need any clarifications or have any
> questions or concerns please feel free to contact
> us. We will be more than happy to assist you.
>
> Best Regards,
> kishoresm
> Investigations Team for Poker

When I asked them about a refund, stupidly thinking that because they did the right thing the first time that they would do it again, I got this response,

Dear XXXX,

We do understand and respect your concern, and agree with the fact that
the disconnection in this hand may have put you in a disadvantageous
position.

Although certain hands look suspicious the fact is that we could never
say for sure that a player has disconnected on purpose. We do have
records of all players disconnects and details of the hands in which they
occur and use this information to make a fair and accurate
determination of the players motives. If we find a pattern suggesting that a
certain player usually disconnects in key moments of the games where a
bet/raise must be called or folded, then we act accordingly by removing that
players disconnect protection.

Please keep in mind that a player can and will be legitimately
disconnected at times that would look suspicious. If a player demonstrates a
pattern of doing this we will remove his protection, even if that player
was genuinely experiencing connectivity problems.

Removing a players disconnect protection does not necessarily assume
that player was maliciously using the system set up to protect honest
players. The protection is a privilege, and we grant it to players that
demonstrate a track record of non suspicious play.

It is because of the above listed reasons that we cannot, in this case,
take any money won away from the player in question and refund players
that might have been affected.

Contact us anytime, we are available around the clock to assist you
with your account related questions and suggestions.


Sincerely,

Robert Ferguson
Investigations Team

then I got another reply,

Dear XXX

As was informed to you before, a player can and will be legitimately
disconnected at times that would look suspicious. If a player
demonstrates a pattern of doing this we will remove his protection, even if that
player was genuinely experiencing connectivity problems.

Removing a players disconnect protection does not necessarily assume
that player was maliciously using the system set up to protect honest
players. The protection is a privilege, and we grant it to players that
demonstrate a track record of non suspicious play.

It is because of the above listed reasons that we cannot, in this case,
take any money won away from the player in question and refund players
that might have been affected.

Contact us anytime, we are available around the clock to assist you
with your account related questions and suggestions.

Sincerely,

Murali Krishna
Investigations Team

Is it too much to ask them to be consistent and read their own emails? If this post is too long, blame it on the guy who said I was lying.

[CountDuckula]

[ QUOTE ]
So Lori, I guess you're saying that PP doesn't like having honest people play on their site?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, what she's saying is that if you want to ensure that nobody cheats you by disconnecting, you can play on a no-DP table; on those, anyone who is disconnected for any reason is folded instead of being "treated as all-in". I do that from time to time, myself. You do take the risk of being disconnected yourself, but you may decide it's worth it.

Personally, I've thought that it would be better if there were a user-configurable option (a check box on each table) for what to do if you're disconnected. The options would be "Fold if disconnected" or "Check/call if disconnected". If you're in a hand where you think you have a great chance of winning, but you know that your connection is flaky at the moment, you check the C/C box; if you're not sure where you stand, and don't want to risk getting raised to hell and back, you check the Fold box. It would remain on whichever option you chose until you change it (but it wouldn't apply to pre-flop play unless you've put money in the pot).


[ QUOTE ]
Too bad for them. Like I said, PP agreed with me that both incidents were cheating. The first time, they refunded me and the second time they didn't. Gotta love consistency.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe you just got the wrong CS rep that time. You might want to ask to speak to that person's boss. EDIT: Never mind, I see you got the same person at least once in each incident.

-Mike

[frank_iii]

[ QUOTE ]
Also, why do you think anyone gives a crap? Most of the people here break the rules on party every day by getting rake back.

[/ QUOTE ]

Forgive the hijack, but huh? Perhaps I missed the fine print but I never saw anything against getting rakeback on the skins...or is this Party-specific? What would the reasoning be behind such a rule, anyway? It sounds like, if this is a rule, it's more a rule for the affiliate to follow rather than the player.

[wateronrock]

Sounds like a bitter affiliate whose gravy train dried up when players got wise to how much cash was being made off their hard work.

Tough.

[lorinda]

it's more a rule for the affiliate to follow rather than the player.

True enough.

I think "Party Poker implicity condones cheating and unethical behavior" sets a thread up for a fight [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

How about "Party owes me $20" or something equally simple.

Lori