Short Blind

msb · #1 03-03-2005, 05:55 PM

Two questions about being all-in in the small/big blinds.

Here's the scenario: No Limit tournament, and the blinds are 400-800.

If I'm in the small blind only have 300 left, can I win any more than 300 per player? For example, if everyone folds around to me, can I win any more than 300 from the BB?
If I'm in the big blind and only have 300 left, can I win any more than 300 from the small blind?

The reason I ask is that I'm not quite sure how to interpret this rule from Robert's Rules...

[ QUOTE ]
17. If a player lacks sufficient chips for a blind or a forced bet, the player is entitled to get action on whatever amount of money remains. A player who posts a short blind and wins does not need to make up the blind.

[/ QUOTE ]

The parts that confuse me are "the player is entitled to get action on whatever amount of money remains"

Does that mean on whatever money remains in his stack?

And this part: "player who posts a short blind and wins does not need to make up the blind."

Does that mean on the next hand?

Spooky · #2 03-03-2005, 06:05 PM

No, a player is never entitled to a bigger pot than they can cover their share of.

Lottery Larry · #3 03-03-2005, 06:06 PM

1) "If I'm in the small blind only have 300 left, can I win any more than 300 per player? For example, if everyone folds around to me, can I win any more than 300 from the BB?"

No- you can never win more chips from each player than you have in, if there are callers.

2) "If I'm in the big blind and only have 300 left, can I win any more than 300 from the small blind"

No, same reason as above. If your BB amount is smaller than the SB amount and only two of you are in, then the SB pulls back some chips.

3) The parts that confuse me are "the player is entitled to get action on whatever amount of money remains"

Does that mean on whatever money remains in his stack?"
No, it means that they get the action based on their short amount, not less or more.

"4) And this part: "player who posts a short blind and wins does not need to make up the blind."

Does that mean on the next hand? "

Probably. That one I'm not so sure of, but what you have in is what you have in for the hand you are playing- no makeups are required.

Does that make it clearer?

Spooky · #4 03-03-2005, 06:07 PM

From HPT : http://www.homepokertourney.com/allin_examples.htm

[ QUOTE ]
What happens when a player can't cover a blind (All-in on a blind)?

If a big blind player does not have enough chips to post a full big blind (he goes all-in for less than the big blind) the bring-in (minumum bet) is not lowered for the other players. If the blinds are 100-200 and the big blind goes all-in with his 125 chips - the other players must still post 200 to remain in the pot. The 'bring-in' remains at 200 and the small blind must post 100 additional chips to call (assuming no raises). The big blind player all-in for 125 may only win 125 from each other player in the hand, he cannot win the full 200 big blind from each player.

Assume the blinds are 200-400 but the player in the big blind has only 150 chips remaining. The small blind posts the usual 200 bet but the big blind posts 150 (all-in) instead of 400. The remaining players must call the normal big blind bet of 400 to remain in the pot. The bring-in (opening bet) is not lowered to 150. The small blind must add an additional 200 to the pot to stay in the hand (assuming no raises). The big blind (all-in) player may only win as many chips as he bet (150) from each opposing player. A twist to this example is that if a player calls the 400 big blind and then the small blind folds, the player who called is refunded 300 instead of 250. He receives the 250 that makes his stack equal with the big blind (150) and he also receives 50 of the 200 that the small blind posted. The main pot is now 450 (150 x 3 players).

[/ QUOTE ]

mrmookid · #5 03-03-2005, 06:11 PM

Once again, I have to agree with Spooky. You are entitled to 300 from each player that called but no more.

msb · #6 03-03-2005, 06:14 PM

Thanks, guys... that's pretty much what I thought, but someone, who sounded very credible, almost had me believing otherwise.

Spooky · #7 03-03-2005, 06:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
And this part: "player who posts a short blind and wins does not need to make up the blind."

[/ QUOTE ]

By this I believe he is refering to the fact that the player was short in meeting the required blind, and he does not need to make up for it in some way after he wins.

gmunny · #8 03-03-2005, 06:16 PM

1) Can only win up to amount you put in, so $300 max.
2) Same as #1.

[ QUOTE ]
The parts that confuse me are "the player is entitled to get action on whatever amount of money remains"

Does that mean on whatever money remains in his stack?

[/ QUOTE ]

The "amount of money remains" references the main pot. You can only win up to what you put into the pot, so in the example you gave of only having $300 in the SB, if there is a limper and the BB checks, then the main pot will have $900 (3x$300), which you are entitled to. The BB and the limper will play for the remaining side pot of $1000 (2x$800+1x$300-$900 main pot).

[ QUOTE ]
And this part: "player who posts a short blind and wins does not need to make up the blind."

Does that mean on the next hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the above means that once you post your small blind or big blind, even though it is less than what is stated (in your example $300 vs $400sb or $800bb), you have satsified the requirements and you don't need to make up the difference. So if you post the $300 in the BB, and you win, then that's it, the blinds keep rotating.

G$

Lottery Larry · #9 03-03-2005, 06:19 PM

Home Poker forum, the slayer of bad information!