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#1
12-19-2005, 03:25 PM
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Re: Wine and dinner
[ QUOTE ]
There is so much bad advice (and good) in here that someone should try to sort it out. I volunteer. [/ QUOTE ] Actually your advice is terrible. [ QUOTE ] 2. If you are in a chain restaurant, odds are the wine is not worth ordering. Higher end, it might be worth a shot [/ QUOTE ] This is wrong, especially for those just getting into wine. [ QUOTE ] Less chance of getting something undrinkable. [/ QUOTE ] Very rarely will one get something that could be described so strongly and most often it will be due to a bad bottle and should be sent back. [ QUOTE ] 3. Never order wine before ordering food. They need to match, no one can order wine properly without knowing what they're going to eat. [/ QUOTE ] This is a huge exagerration. Yes wine's can and should be paired to foods but they do not have to be. For a beginner this is totally unnecessary beyond very basic red with beef type matchings. [ QUOTE ] (The exception will be if you know you're ordering steak. If you order steak in a restaurant regularly, you are too boring for words. [/ QUOTE ] Makes no sense. [ QUOTE ] 4. If you're in a place you dare order wine [/ QUOTE ] Dare???? It's not [censored] russian roulette it's a bottle of damn wine. What is so [censored] daring? Just terrible advice throughout. 
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#2
12-19-2005, 05:06 PM
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Re: Wine and dinner
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] There is so much bad advice (and good) in here that someone should try to sort it out. I volunteer. [/ QUOTE ] Actually your advice is terrible. [ QUOTE ] 2. If you are in a chain restaurant, odds are the wine is not worth ordering. Higher end, it might be worth a shot [/ QUOTE ] This is wrong, especially for those just getting into wine. [ QUOTE ] Less chance of getting something undrinkable. [/ QUOTE ] Very rarely will one get something that could be described so strongly and most often it will be due to a bad bottle and should be sent back. [ QUOTE ] 3. Never order wine before ordering food. They need to match, no one can order wine properly without knowing what they're going to eat. [/ QUOTE ] This is a huge exagerration. Yes wine's can and should be paired to foods but they do not have to be. For a beginner this is totally unnecessary beyond very basic red with beef type matchings. [ QUOTE ] (The exception will be if you know you're ordering steak. If you order steak in a restaurant regularly, you are too boring for words. [/ QUOTE ] Makes no sense. [ QUOTE ] 4. If you're in a place you dare order wine [/ QUOTE ] Dare???? It's not [censored] russian roulette it's a bottle of damn wine. What is so [censored] daring? Just terrible advice throughout. [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, I always order the house red with a steak at Appleby's. Bet you think Bud Light is good beer too. Almost anyone with a grill and a good cut of meat can make a better steak at home than you can get in any restaurant. Why order what you can make at home? And wine at Appleby's/Friday's/Ruby Tuesday/CPK/Chili's/Bennigan's etc. is almost always a bad idea. Seriously, there is some bad plonk out there, something that even first timers shouldn't be subject to. And yes, if you can at least get something halfway decent when starting, you're more likely to continue. I never said send back a BOTTLE. That's why you don't order bottles, especially when you're first starting. You can easily send back a glass. They will also let you taste glass pours before getting a full glass if you just don't know. Most decent restaurants will do this. Finally, if a restaurant will advise a food/wine pairing, by all means take their advice. Even the finest red will taste bad if paired incorrectly. Pinot noir with steak is going to taste thin, even if you are following the red with beef rule. Some merlots would work great with steak, many will not. Italian reds don't seem to work with steaks either, but that just might be me, I'm not a big Italian fan, but I have been surprised. There is no way most people will know this, and they'll wonder what is wrong with the wine. Being macho and thinking you can do it on your own is just a crap shoot waiting to go bad. Expertise is out there, use it.
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#4
12-19-2005, 05:33 PM
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Re: Wine and dinner
goofy,
Ignore most everything in this thread. When you go someplace where you think a glass of wine would be nice to have, ask the waiter to recommend a few glasses of wine. Pick one that sounds good and is reasonably priced. Just stick with ordering glasses until you've been drinking wine for a while. Initially, you'll probably want to avoid wines that are described as very dry/oaky/tannic/big. These are all indicators of various types of strong/powerful flavors that take a little getting used to. When you drink wines at restaurants or dinner parties or wherever, initially start remembering the types (Chardonnay, Merlot, Pinot, Cabernet, etc.) of wines and the descriptions (dry, fruity, tannic, etc.). As you try more wines, you'll figure out which tastes you like and look for those. And then start paying more attention to the specific wineries, but that's not really something that's very important until you start buying/drinking wine a lot. If you get into wine, buy a few $10-15 bottles from the grocery or wine store and just bust them open from time to time at home to try out more stuff and see what you like. The main point is, if you want to read/study/know guidelines/etc, all that stuff is fine. But it's really all about tasting a lot of wines and figuring out what you like.
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#6
12-19-2005, 10:31 PM
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Re: Wine and dinner
El D,
He is right.
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#7
12-19-2005, 11:11 PM
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Re: Wine and dinner
Here's some great domestic wines under $20.
Winery: Buehler Score: 93 Wine: Zinfandel Napa Valley 2003 Highly Recommended Price: $15 Country: California Region: Napa Issue: Oct 31, 2005 Amazingly plush and supple, with a flow of ripe blueberry, blackberry, plum and wild berry fruit that goes down easy. Hints of pepper, spice and cedar flavors linger in the background, letting the fruit shine through. Drink now through 2008. 1,200 cases made. (JL) Search for user tasting notes Select Winery: Cliff Lede Score: 92 Wine: Sauvignon Blanc Napa Valley 2004 Smart Buys Price: $18 Country: California Region: Napa Issue: Aug 31, 2005 Vibrant and pointed, with wonderful concentration to the rich passion fruit, grass, hay, floral and lemon peel flavors. Stays deft and crisp, with a wash of palate-cleansing acidity along with a measure of harmony and finesse. Drink now through 2006. 1,140 cases made. (JL) Search for user tasting notes Select Winery: Novy Score: 92 Wine: Syrah Sonoma County 2003 Smart Buys Price: $19 Country: California Region: Sonoma Issue: Jul 31, 2005 A bold, rich, dark-hued wine, with roasted plum and juicy blackberry and boysenberry. Turns thick and plush at midpalate and finishes with a gush of fruit, smoky toasty oak and a touch of heat. Drink now through 2010. 1,116 cases made. (JL) Search for user tasting notes Select Winery: Rosenblum Score: 92 Wine: Zinfandel Paso Robles Richard Sauret Vineyards 2003 Highly Recommended Price: $19 Country: California Region: South Coast Issue: Jun 30, 2005 A delicious young Zin, with layers of ripe, zesty blackberry, boysenberry and wild berry shaded by toasty oak. Plush, rich aftertaste. Drink now through 2009. 7,029 cases made. (JL) Search for user tasting notes Select Winery: Buehler Score: 91 Wine: Chardonnay Russian River Valley Reserve 2002 Price: $20 Country: California Region: Sonoma Issue: Jul 31, 2005 Plump, ripe and fleshy, with a complex range of pure Chardonnay flavors built around apple, pear, spice and a hint of mint that offers a shade of anise. Keeps its focus and finishes with a lingering aftertaste. Drink now. 300 cases made. (JL) Search for user tasting notes Select Winery: Ferrari-Carano Score: 91 Wine: Fumé Blanc Sonoma County 2004 Smart Buys Price: $15 Country: California Region: Sonoma Issue: Jul 31, 2005 A terrific, stylistic effort. Vibrant and lively, with a delicious mix of orange rind, grapefruit, fig compote and subtle grass tones. Lemon blossom and tart quince flavors keep pumping out the intensity through the finish. Drink now through 2007. 30,000 cases made. (JL) Search for user tasting notes Select Winery: Kenwood Score: 91 Wine: Sauvignon Blanc Sonoma County 2004 Smart Buys Price: $13 Country: California Region: Sonoma Issue: Jul 31, 2005 Tangy, with high-toned lemon-lime, grapefruit, fig and peach flavors. Already harmonious, with a bright vibrancy that will complement food. Kenwood's at the top of its Sauvignon game. Drink now through 2007. 78,000 cases made. (JL) Search for user tasting notes Select Winery: Ledgewood Creek Score: 91 Wine: Sauvignon Blanc Suisun Valley 2004 Smart Buys Price: $10 Country: California Region: Other California Issue: Nov 15, 2005 What an exciting Sauvignon Blanc. Fragrant, with orange blossom, lemon-lime and grassy flavors that are intense and vibrant, picking up a green apple and tart citrus edge. It keeps pumping out the concentration through the finish. Drink now through 2007. 250 cases made. (JL) Search for user tasting notes Select Winery: LinCourt Score: 91 Wine: Syrah Santa Barbara County 2003 Smart Buys Price: $20 Country: California Region: South Coast Issue: Sep 30, 2005 This wine offers a wonderful array of ripe, fleshy wild berry, blackberry and boysenberry fruit that's intense, concentrated and impeccably balanced and finishes in a long, pure aftertaste. Best from 2006 through 2012. 1,058 cases made. (JL) Search for user tasting notes Select Winery: Carrefour Score: 90 Wine: Sauvignon Blanc Napa Valley 2004 Price: $16 Country: California Region: Napa Issue: Aug 31, 2005 Intense, complex and concentrated, with vibrant sweet pea, green fig, grass, floral and grapefruit notes, the flavors lingering on the finish with a lemony vibrancy. Drink now through 2006. Tasted twice, with consistent notes. 340 cases made. (JL) Search for user tasting notes Select Winery: Chateau Souverain Score: 90 Wine: Sauvignon Blanc Alexander Valley 2004 Smart Buys Price: $14 Country: California Region: Sonoma Issue: Jul 31, 2005 Tight and concentrated. Slowly unfolds to reveal a medley of rich grass, lemon-lime, fig and floral character, with a citrus tanginess lingering on the finish. Drink now through 2006. 9,468 cases made. (JL) Search for user tasting notes Select Winery: Eola Hills Score: 90 Wine: Syrah Columbia Valley-Oregon Reserve 2000 Price: $20 Country: Oregon Region: Oregon Issue: Jun 30, 2005 Tastes a bit like a Barossa (Australia) Shiraz, with its tarry, licorice-scented cherry, dark raspberry and plum flavors lingering on the remarkably clear-headed, open-textured finish. Drink now through 2010. 500 cases made. (HS) Search for user tasting notes Select Winery: Gordon Brothers Score: 90 Wine: Merlot Columbia Valley 2002 Smart Buys Price: $15 Country: Washington Region: Washington Issue: Aug 31, 2005 Smooth and rich, a plush mouthful of sweet cherry, dried currant and dusky spice flavors that linger on the silky finish, hinting at sage as the wine persists. Drink now through 2009. 2,561 cases made. (HS) Search for user tasting notes Select Winery: Barnard Griffin Score: 90 Wine: Merlot Columbia Valley 2003 Smart Buys Price: $19 Country: Washington Region: Washington Issue: Oct 15, 2005 Fresh, generous and appealing for its pretty currant and blueberry aromas and flavors, remaining polished and juicy through the extended, gently spicy finish. Drink now through 2010. 5,600 cases made. (HS) Search for user tasting notes Select Winery: Morgan Score: 90 Wine: Chardonnay Monterey 2003 Smart Buys Price: $20 Country: California Region: Bay Area/Central Coast Issue: Sep 30, 2005 A touch floral and leafy in the aroma, but very rich and complex on the palate, with concentrated apple, pear, melon, spice and citrus notes all adding to the flavor range; the acidity gives the finish a lively edge. Drink now. 10,300 cases made. (JL) Search for user tasting notes Select Winery: Sebastiani Score: 90 Wine: Cabernet Sauvignon Sonoma County 2002 Smart Buys Price: $17 Country: California Region: Sonoma Issue: Oct 31, 2005 This skillfully balanced wine combines ripe, fleshy Cabernet fruit with light cedar and mocha-scented oak, letting the currant, plum and black cherry fruit shine through. A delight to drink now and over the next few years. Drink now through 2009. 52,000 cases made. (JL) Search for user tasting notes Select Winery: Three Rivers Score: 90 Wine: Gewürztraminer Walla Walla Valley Late Harvest Biscuit Ridge Vineyard 2003 Price: $12 Country: Washington Region: Washington Issue: Oct 15, 2005 Sweet but succulent, with lovely rose petal and orange peel overtones to the sweet pear and honey flavors, lingering well. Drink now through 2010. 536 cases made. (HS) Search for user tasting notes Select Winery: Viento Score: 90 Wine: Syrah Columbia Valley Cuvée R 2003 Price: $20 Country: Washington Region: Washington Issue: Oct 15, 2005 Rich and generous, with a lively balance of just enough acidity to keep the smoky plum and cherry flavors rolling through the long, peppery finish. Drink now through 2010. 150 cases made. (HS)
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#8
12-19-2005, 11:12 PM
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Re: Wine and dinner
Some really good info in here from Clark and Sucker. I'm saving this thread.
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