Fast playing big padookis

[CurryLover]

I'm going to preface all posts that I make on padooki by pointing out that we play the game a little differently in the UK. We play pot limit, and the hand ranking rules are slightly different. This adds some different strategies to the game, and I believe our system of hand rankings is far superior (but that's a different story).

Anyway, I'm going to discuss one of the most basic padooki moves there is - fast playing a big padooki. The reason I am posting on this is because it can be a +EV play if done at the right time, but can be costly if certain necessary conditions are not met. I'm going to try to identify some of the conditions that are necessary for this play to be a profitable one. Most of what I discuss below is very basic stuff if you're familiar with padooki and pot limit betting. However, I have seen so many people who fast play their big padookis at completely inopportune moments that I thought this post may have some value.

Let's start by giving an example of how this move can work perfectly:

You are dealt a Q padooki. 4 callers round to you in the cut-off, and you decide to raise to £10. You get 3 callers and the pot is approximately £50. You have £200 left in your stack.

First change. First player draws one card, as does the second player. Third player takes two. You stand pat. They all check to you. You bet the pot, and all but one of your opponents pass. Pot is now £150 and you have £150 left in your stack.

Second change. Opponent takes one card. You stand pat, and move all-in when it is checked to you. From now on, it does not matter what happens. It is up to the poker gods, but you have achieved everything you possibly could have hoped for.

This is about as good as it gets when you fast play a big padooki from the start. Notice all the things that went right for you:

1. You managed to get it heads up after the first change.

2. You opponent did not put pressure on you by making a check-raise semi bluff after the first change.

3. You had exactly the right stack size for the situation.

Let’s look at each of these three things individually, since they are crucial factors in making the ‘stand pat on a big one’ play work.

1. Number of opponents is crucial. You need to get this coup heads up as quickly as you can. If you find that you still have 3 or 4 opponents after the first change you are likely in big trouble, even if they all turn out to still be drawing. There is an excellent chance that at least one of them will make a padooki on the second change, and will trap you for the rest of your stack.

2. The check-raise semi bluff is very difficult to defend against in this situation. Imagine what happens if your opponent check raises you the full pot after the first change. You’re not calling without a solid read on your opponent. So this gives a good player two ways to beat you. He either makes a better padooki than you, or he hits a blank but bets you off the hand (or he tries to bet you off the hand and then outdraws you when you call). If you consistently call down check raises with Q high padookis then you are going to lose money at this game.

3. Stack size is probably the most important factor in playing a big one fast. Simply put, you need to run out of money at the right time. You want to be able to get all-in after the second change. There are two main reasons for this. First, you are denying your opponent implied odds. He is getting exactly 2:1 on his money if you bet the pot all-in and his odds of outdrawing you with only one change left are worse than 2:1. He does not have any implied odds to compensate since you are now all-in. Second, he will not be able to bluff you out after the third change since you are all-in. In Pot Limit Padooki, the bluffing leverage that a drawing hand has on the end is at least as important as the pot odds and implied odds that it is receiving. If you still had plenty of money left in your stack after the third change, there is no way you can call a big bet from your opponent unless you have a rock solid read. If your opponent is able to accurately put you on a ‘big one’, a bluff on the end is a very high percentage play for him since he knows you simply cannot call.

Now let's run the hand again. This time, however, it goes wrong:

You are dealt a Q padooki. 4 callers round to you in the cut-off, and you decide to raise to £10. You get 3 callers and the pot is approximately £50. You have £750 left in your stack.

First change. First player draws one card, as does the second player. Third player takes two. You stand pat. They all check to you. You bet the pot, and get two callers. Pot is now £200 and you have £700 left in your stack.

Second change. Both players draw one card. They both check to you and you bet the pot. You have £500 left in your stack. Two nasty things can now happen:

A)One of the players can check raise you. A good player will be doing this as a semi-bluff quite often, but he will also make the same move when he has outdrawn you. It puts you in an impossible situation unless you have a brilliant read on your opponent. And of course, even if you correctly deduce he is semi-bluffing and call him down he still sometimes outdraws you on the last change.

B) One or both of the players call. They may or may not stand pat on the third change. One of them comes out betting into you after the change. The absolute worst thing is when the first player checks and the second player bets into you. You now have the first player to worry about as well since he may have hit a good padooki and have checked it in the hope that this exact thing would happen. In this situation you may feel obliged to pass even if you think there is a good chance that the second player is bluffing, since you don’t know what the first player is planning.

Compare this with the first scenario and notice all the things that went wrong for you.

1. You did not manage to get it heads up.

2. Your opponents were capable of making bluff and semi-bluffs to put you under maximum pressure.

3. You had money left after betting the second change. This allowed your opponents to semi-bluff you right away or bluff you out after the third change. Furthermore, it also meant that your opponents had implied odds to continue drawing.

Conclusion

Fast playing a big padooki can be a profitable play. However, it is highly situational. You want to be searching for situations where:

A) You are likely to be able to reduce the field to one or two opponents as quickly as possible.

B) Your opponents are straightforward, predictable players who will not put pressure on you with bluffs and semi-bluffs.

C) You will be able to run out of money before the end of the hand in order to deny your opponents both implied odds and bluffing leverage.

In my experience, condition C is of crucial importance. This is a play you should rarely make when you have a deep stack and are likely to find yourself up against other deep stacked opponents who are tricky and have moves. The worst situation is to be out of position with a deep stack against a strong player who bluffs and semi-bluffs with the correct frequency. In this nightmare situation your position is untenable and you should shut down immediately.

In essence, this is a ‘stack builder’ play. You can look out for good opportunities to use it when you have a medium-small stack. But pick these situations carefully and only try this move when you think you can get the best of it. Indiscriminately playing big padookis in a deep stacked cash game is not profitable.

Postscript – on blending moves and harmonizing your betting strategies

A few weeks ago I saw a strong player fast play a pat K padooki. His hand held up and he more than doubled through. Very next hand he again came out betting hard from the start. This time he had been dealt a pat smooth 6! He got re-raised and then paid off by an opponent who had been dealt a pat 8 padooki. Of course, this is an extreme example and things rarely time themselves so well. However, the overall point is that you should also often choose to fast play your best padookis as well as your big'uns.