AT in BB. Well played or foolish aggression?

Carmine · #1 10-26-2005, 07:26 PM

Villain is SLA-A.
PF: I think this call is good getting like 7:1 and played cautiously.
Flop: I want to take it down against overs. I'm not happy about being 3-bet but this guy is aggressive. I really don't know where I stand.
Turn: I could just let it go but I opted not to. It is going to cost me 2BB (most likely) to see the river. I raise the scare card to get JJ and 6 out hands to fold and go for free showdown.

Party Poker 3.00/6.00 Hold'em (10 handed) link

Preflop: Hero is BB with T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, 3 folds, CO calls, 1 folds, SB raises, Hero calls, UTG+2 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (8.00 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, UTG+2 folds, CO folds, SB 3-bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (7.00 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, SB calls.

River: (11.00 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 11.00 BB.

#2 10-26-2005, 07:51 PM

your flop raise is mandatory. However, after 3 bet, if your raising the turn, why aren't u betting the river? I don't think your getting him to fold. It will cost two bets no matter what and maybe even more by raising here w/ your marginal hand. So if your facing a good hand your getting 3 bet and losing two more bets. If he's aggressive he will do this w/ every hand that can beat yours. I think if you raise the turn, its for value and you should value bet the river, however, i like just calling him down better. what does everyone else think?

toss · #3 10-26-2005, 07:52 PM

Postflop looks well played to me. PF I don't know. Probably doesn't matter much.

Carmine · #4 10-26-2005, 11:45 PM

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your flop raise is mandatory. However, after 3 bet, if your raising the turn, why aren't u betting the river?

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I think 90% of hands that call a river bet have me beat.

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It will cost two bets no matter what and maybe even more by raising here w/ your marginal hand. So if your facing a good hand your getting 3 bet and losing two more bets.

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I have already decided to commit to 2 bets and 2 bets only. I insta-muck to a turn 3-bet.

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however, i like just calling him down better. what does everyone else think?

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I'm not sure if you mean call down from the flop, which would be terrible with this vulnerable hand. If you mean from the turn I think my line is stronger and I spend the same amount. If this player was more maniac than just aggressive then I wouldn't put myself in a bluff-raise predicament.

[ QUOTE ]
Postflop looks well played to me. PF I don't know. Probably doesn't matter much.

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I agree it's close and was hoping to get more opinions on all streets. No matter what the outcome was in this hand I question weather getting this involved in a hand this marginal is +EV in the long run or is it better to fold the turn UI or PF for that matter.

somapopper · #5 10-27-2005, 12:18 AM

it's only 90% of hands that have you beat when you raise the turn.

If a 4 flush comes it opens the hand up for you and is a much more plausible spot if you feel like bluffing.

You will often show down for one big bet when you don't raise the turn.

Harv72b · #6 10-27-2005, 12:10 AM

I like that you have a reason for every move that you made in this hand; that alone shows the makings of a very good poker player. It's one thing to raise because so & so's book told you to, but another thing entirely to actually understand why you're doing it.

The preflop call is okay; I'd like it a lot better if you were sooted, but I agree that you can most likely make it given the pot odds.

The flop raise is mandatory. Calling the flop 3-bet is also mandatory.

It's the turn raise that I don't like. You're already heads up, so you aren't protecting your hand from anything by raising. And you have to know that your opponent is very weak/tight before you can even imagine that he'll fold an overpair to your turn raise; I think the only way that happens is if the river brings another club and you fire again there (and, of course, he doesn't have a club).

What's more likely is that you will be called down by the hands that beat you (overpairs), possibly be 3-bet by a hand like A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Kx (and you can't call the turn 3-bet), or else fold out hands that are drawing very thin against you (AK/AQ with no club, 99 no club, etc). Because of that, I'd prefer to spend my two bets calling down rather than by raising the turn/checking through the river. Especially against an aggressive opponent who is likely to fire again on the river with UI overcards.

And incidentally, very few players are raising third in from the SB with any hand that has 6 outs against you on the turn. Some will, yes, but it's pretty rare at these limits.

me454555 · #7 10-27-2005, 12:29 AM

Why do you want to instamuck to a 3 bet? He could be putting a move on your w/QQ or KK w/a club. Against these hands you have the odds to draw to your 2 pair if he 3 bets it. I think calling here and the river is the way to go b/c it gets you to showdown for cheap. You already have solid hand so most of the semibluffing equity goes out the window

lionhorse · #8 10-27-2005, 12:42 AM

At first I wasn't too happy about the turn raise, but after reading your thinking behind it I like this line. Are you folding to a 3 bet on the turn?