AQo, whiff the flop.

BigEndian · #1 11-22-2005, 11:28 PM

I just sat down, so no reads. I'm not sure reads are really relavent unless the seats in the hand on the turn and river are ball-crushing rocks or slot machine lags.

I have my own opinions about the hand, but I thought I would just let others voice theirs first.

Party Poker Hold'em (9 max, 10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: BigEndian is Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, 3 folds, CO calls, BigEndian raises, 1 fold, BB calls, UTG+2 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, UTG+2 bets, CO calls, BigEndian calls, BB calls.

Turn: (6.25 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, UTG+2 checks, CO folds, BigEndian bets, BB raises, UTG+2 calls, BigEndian calls.

River: (12.25 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets, UTG+2 calls, BigEndian calls.

Final Pot: 15.25 BB

- Jim

WillyTrailer · #2 11-22-2005, 11:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure reads are really relavent unless the seats in the hand on the turn and river are ball-crushing rocks or slot machine lags.

[/ QUOTE ]

Also important is whether second to act guy is a super fish or one who can never let go of anything. If that's not the case I'd find a fold on the river.

Of course there can be many other reads that will be important. Nonetheless, the turn-raise and cold-call should scare you a little and you should be more worried when the river brings a 3 flush and there is a bet and a call in front of you.

-WT

Mister Z · #3 11-23-2005, 02:29 AM

I think there is enough coordination and number of opponents in this hand to make this flop a fold. Although most of the time you may have 6 clean outs, the % of the time you are reverse dominated or up against a ton of outs brings the value of this hand way down to me.

toss · #4 11-23-2005, 06:56 AM

I'd play it the same way. Yay if you have a higher kicker. Boo is you're reverse dominated.

Nick Royale · #5 11-23-2005, 07:02 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Nonetheless, the turn-raise and cold-call should scare you a little and you should be more worried when the river brings a 3 flush and there is a bet and a call in front of you.

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't think BB will check/raise the turn with a fd and the call from UTG+2 don't make me put him on a made flush.

Nick Royale · #6 11-23-2005, 07:03 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I think there is enough coordination and number of opponents in this hand to make this flop a fold. Although most of the time you may have 6 clean outs, the % of the time you are reverse dominated or up against a ton of outs brings the value of this hand way down to me.

[/ QUOTE ]
We only need 4 outs clean. Only a bet and one caller, standard call IMO.

Nick Royale · #7 11-23-2005, 07:07 AM

It seems to me BB check/raise the turn to blow the field, it might easily come from a weaker ace. Sure, there's a chance he made aces up, but I think the call down is pretty easy.

BigEndian · #8 11-23-2005, 11:12 AM

I think that's wishful thinking. Until I see someone demonstrate the ability to isolate, I assume it's not in their skill set.

My hand looks exactly a whiffed big ace on the flop yet I'm getting raised and, arguably worse, cold-called 2. I think there's a good argument to lay the hand down on the turn given the action. But I think over calling the river is a mistake.

An alternate line would be to check the ace through, but I bet it with 2x flush draws on the board.

- Jim

MisterKing · #9 11-23-2005, 11:35 AM

I like flop and turn. No way you can check this turn through -- that's revisionist thinking colored by the river play. You must bet it, and I think you'll be raised by weaker aces with or without a frush draw (e.g. Ad5d) or other 8 out+ draws like 6d5d often enough that you can safely call. 3-betting the turn seems foolish, since most of the additional money going into the pot goes to the player with the best draw at this point, rather than the player with the best hand. Miller explains this nicely in SSH.

As for the river, I'm folding. UTG+2's coldcall on the turn + call on the river + flop lead means you're beat. If he'd folded, I could see hero calling (and losing a high % but still profiting on the bet). If it is checked to you on the river, I'd be a pussy and check it through. Maybe it should be bet/folded, I dunno.

gopnik · #10 11-23-2005, 11:44 AM

I think you should be folding this turn. Looks like you either drawing dead against a straight or a set, or you got 3 outs against A and a paired x.
I'd fold.