Two preflop decisions.

[Huh]

A) You have AKoff in middle position. A loose-aggressive player raises UTG. This could mean any pair, any suited ace, or a variety of other hands. A young know-it-all re-raises, in what looks like an isolation play. A tight-old man calls (scary), action on you. Raise, Call, or Fold.

b)You are on the Button with A4s, the whole table limps to you. The player on your left is hyper-aggressive and loves to raise pre-flop(position doesn't phase him), especially multiway. You see him counting out a raise, what do you do?

These were two pre-flop decisions I faced over the weekend, and I was wondering what people thought.

-Huh [img]/forums/images/icons/confused.gif[/img]

[Buckshot]

1) I would probably fold. If it were suited I would cap. This is mainly because of the scary cold call so, basically, my decision is player dependant. If not for whitey-tighty then I might cold call myself and proceed cautiously.

2) If the entire field limps to me and I have a suited Ace on the button I don't think the gravitational force of the Sun could get me to release my hand. I would welcome the SB getting ready to raise. But if you're asking on whether or not to raise yourself, certainly not if you think the SB would re-raise and limit the field. Capisce?

~stephen

[J.A.Sucker]

Hand 1 is probably close, and folding can't be too bad here, due to Tighty McWhitey being in there, as you say (I love that phrase, which I first read from Mike l, I believe).

Hand 2, I would raise here and I don't think it's close. You wrote, "But if you're asking on whether or not to raise yourself, certainly not if you think the SB would re-raise and limit the field." This is EXACTLY why I'd love it. Dead money in the pot with an A in my hand and a maniac acting first is a fine situation for me. If everyone else comes in, now you have a gigantic pot, a hand that can make the nuts, and position (I'd cap it if it came back to me for 3 bets and a multiway pot, BTW). Plus, you've represented a bigger hand than you have, so the rest of the field won't be as tempted to make a move on you. You're really setting this up to be a headsup pot vs the maniac by the turn. Sounds tasty.

These are just my opinions, but I'm Just Another Sucker.

[bugstud]

on #2 why not call then when sb raises 3 bet when it gets back to you

[Buckshot]

You said: "... I don't think it's close." Well, it depends on whether the limpers are tight or loose.

Why? I'm glad you asked. [img]/forums/images/icons/cool.gif[/img]

If you're against 6 random hands against total morons, then your hand has enough value for a raise on its own face value... but against 6 tight limpers your suited Ace-Four may win less than its fair share.

I think saying it's not even close really depends on the field. Were you saying this because you "know" the SB will reraise? Or were you saying this b/c you "see" a big pot building? I think the latter is more results oriented while the former has some merit.

~stephen

[rtrombone]

Hand 1 really depends on what exactly you put tighty on. I'm guessing that even he will 3-bet with AA or KK. If you've seen him cold call with AK before (and suspect he's doing it again) it's a clear fold. If you think he has 10 10 - QQ, you should probably 4-bet. AK loves to be in a hand that's capped pre-flop so long as the aces and kings are live.

Re: hand 2, in the games I play in, all a raise will do is lead to a capped family pot. A4s does NOT want to see the flop for 4 bets, even with position. A4s wants to see the flop as cheaply as possible. J.A.S.'s suggestion is good if you think you will get heads up with the maniac. I don't think this will happen outside of Vegas, though.

I call and hope that nobody makes it 3 bets.

[andyfox]

A) I'd fold. A-K is an overrated hand when there's a raise, another raise, and a cold-call from Mr. Tight.

B) I'd raise. If he 3-bets and scares out the A-x's, well, worse things could happen.

[Huh]

In hand number 1 I folded and felt sick as soon as I did. Even though the flop would've totally missed me and the old man won with his Queens, I still felt like I likely had the other two dominated.

In hand number 2, I limp-reraised 8 other players. I couldn't resist the oppurtunity. I figured I would win more than my fair share of pots, and getting as much money in was a favorable idea. The players were also "Look at the size of that pot" type players, so I thought if I hit I could pick up alot more bets on the turn or river. Unfortunately the flop was one tone, not my suit.

-Huh

[Buckshot]

I'll have to do the math on hand 2 to see if it is always viable to limp then 3 bet preflop on the button with Ace-Four suited. It could be construed that doing it everytime might not be profitable but without doing the numbers it's hard to say. Perhaps against 8 totally random hands then it's fine. If one of the limpers has something like Ace-Ten suited then I would guess you're not going to win your fair share.

~stephen

[J.A.Sucker]

I really don't think it matters who the limpers are. If they are tight and they will fold, then you have a great situation, where weaker A's might be out. Even if SB has KK, which is far from a given, this is a fine place to be in. At the other end of the spectrum is that everyone calls. Now, there's a huge pot and you have a "huge pot" hand. Also, you have position and people will respect you for a hand. This makes things easier to play down the road. And, if the SB raises, you should 4 bet, unless it's headsup, whereupon your 4 bet becomes much more player subjective, though I'd still 4 bet even headsup against many players. This builds a still bigger pot and further represents a huge hand on your behalf. This is far from a bad situation.

My default play on the button with a hand like Axs is to raise, especially after a couple of limpers. After a slew of them, it's a gimmie raise, as are many other hands, like JTs or even 87s. This is hardly being results oriented. The fact that the poster looked left and saw the raise coming makes this an even easier play. Looking left is a good habit to get into.

These are just my opinions, but I'm Just Another Sucker.