Ehitcs revisted

[chezlaw]

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By definition, I value that which increases my happiness.

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It's a bit rum to start from the point of definition. The question is about what we value and I dispute that its happiness in the sense you mean.

I agree that the things we value make us happy but its a huge jump from there to saying that all we value is happiness.

chez

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You didn't provide another definition. I didn't say all we value is happiness. I said we value things because they make us happy. We value X, because X increases our happiness. If X did not increase our happiness, we wouldn't value it. I hope I've made myself clear, but you have still not explained what you mean by "value", if it is different than what I'm saying.

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I haven't made it clear because I'm not sure [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

but I think I value things because I'm evolved to want them not because they make me happy. That they make me happy is probably true but its not the reason I value them.

One of the thing I want is to survive, and that includes the survival of my values. That's why I wouldn't take the pill even though it guarantees greater happiness.

so although I'm not sure about the precise nature of what we value, I'm pretty sure its not true that we value X because X makes us happy. In fact, I'd say its the other way round, X makes us happy because we value it.

chez

[DougShrapnel]

Chez is the close to what you mean when you say things about ethics?

The important thing that I wish to get across is that some people are gonna say that murder is ethically wrong. They will go to great lenghts to create a story that confirms or agrees with this view. Others will think that murder is OK. They will go to even greater lengths to create a story that confirms or agrees with this view. We "know" the correctness/incorrectness of an action and we then build the reasons up to that knowledge.

[chezlaw]

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Chez is the close to what you mean when you say things about ethics?

The important thing that I wish to get across is that some people are gonna say that murder is ethically wrong. They will go to great lenghts to create a story that confirms or agrees with this view. Others will think that murder is OK. They will go to even greater lengths to create a story that confirms or agrees with this view. We "know" the correctness/incorrectness of an action and we then build the reasons up to that knowledge.

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I think a lot of that goes on, often as a result of confusion and often its a deliberate attempt to mislead others or ourselves. However, its often the correct thing to do. I don't think that we "know' that killing people is wrong but come to "know" it is wrong (or not) via a process like the one you describe

e.g. Killing people is wrong because I value their values and they value being alive.

If I didn't value their values then there is no 'moral value' reason for not killing them though there may be a 'moral rationality' reason for not killing them.

Moral rationality always requires an argument to justify the conclusion. e.g. killing people is wrong because its bad for society which is bad for me.

chez