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#1
10-16-2005, 04:06 AM
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Altruism and Absolute Morality
When people talk ethics and absolute morality they think altruism. The absolute morality of man may have nothing at all to do with altruism. Altruism says that someone elses life is worth more than your own life. In order to get to a AM we must think in terms of man, based in the reality of the world. I believe that we will find AM if we look at mans life as valuable to him. Additionally, that people are owners of their own life.
edit: the use of the world absolute morality is to be taken as, a wholey inclusion set of principles that do not end in contradictions when applied to any situation. 
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#2
10-16-2005, 06:31 AM
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Re: Rights and Absolute Morality
Or better topic maybe: To say that there is no absolute morality is to say that someone does not have any rights.
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#3
10-16-2005, 06:47 AM
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Re: Rights and Absolute Morality
[ QUOTE ]
Or better topic maybe: To say that there is no absolute morality is to say that someone does not have any rights. [/ QUOTE ] Not if rights are a construction of society. Unless you mean absolute rights and I'm not sure what you would mean by that. chez
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#4
10-16-2005, 07:37 AM
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Re: Rights and Absolute Morality
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Or better topic maybe: To say that there is no absolute morality is to say that someone does not have any rights. [/ QUOTE ] Not if rights are a construction of society. Unless you mean absolute rights and I'm not sure what you would mean by that. chez [/ QUOTE ]Well, if rights are a construction of society then morals as well are a construction of society. I might want to say: In order to show AM we must have some natural rights. NR are usually defined to include liberty, and life. Some add the pursuit of happiness, some add other things. AM would most like be derived from NR. Or I might want to say that rights are truth elucidated by reason. And AM would follow from NR. I am beginning to believe that ethics and morality are merely rational self-interest.
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#5
10-16-2005, 07:44 AM
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Re: Rights and Absolute Morality
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Or better topic maybe: To say that there is no absolute morality is to say that someone does not have any rights. [/ QUOTE ] Not if rights are a construction of society. Unless you mean absolute rights and I'm not sure what you would mean by that. chez [/ QUOTE ]Well, if rights are a construction of society then morals as well are a construction of society. I might want to say: In order to show AM we must have some natural rights. NR are usually defined to include liberty, and life. Some add the pursuit of happiness, some add other things. AM would most like be derived from NR. Or I might want to say that rights are truth elucidated by reason. And AM would follow from NR. [/ QUOTE ] Rights could be an attempt to codify AM but fail. It may even be that AM exists but can not be contained within a framework of rights. Also I don't see how it follows from 'it is wrong to do something to someone' to 'people have a right not to have that done to them'. [ QUOTE ] I am beginning to believe that ethics and morality are merely rational self-interest. [/ QUOTE ] Not even 'merely'. Morality is (imo) a part of self-interest. The question is which part and what is its nature? chez
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#6
10-16-2005, 08:00 AM
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Re: Rights and Absolute Morality
[ QUOTE ]
Also I don't see how it follows from 'it is wrong to do something to someone' to 'people have a right not to have that done to them'. [/ QUOTE ] This is backwards from what I'm trying to say, People have a right not to have this done to them, thus it it wrong to do that. [ QUOTE ] Not even 'merely'. Morality is (imo) a part of self-interest. The question is which part and what is its nature? [/ QUOTE ] I'm beggining to think that all of morality is rational self-interest. Do you think that there is any situation where someone is being ethical without any regard to his/her own interest?
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#7
10-16-2005, 08:38 AM
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Re: Rights and Absolute Morality
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Also I don't see how it follows from 'it is wrong to do something to someone' to 'people have a right not to have that done to them'. [/ QUOTE ] This is backwards from what I'm trying to say, People have a right not to have this done to them, thus it it wrong to do that. [/ QUOTE ] That seems like a good basis for constructing legal frameworks but it doesn't follow that no rights mean no AM as there could be other reasons why something is wrong. [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Not even 'merely'. Morality is (imo) a part of self-interest. The question is which part and what is its nature? [/ QUOTE ] I'm beggining to think that all of morality is rational self-interest. Do you think that there is any situation where someone is being ethical without any regard to his/her own interest? [/ QUOTE ] No I don't. Where I disagree with some others is the idea that morality is some sort of rational juggling of self-interest. Morality is an intrinsic part of self-interest. chez
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#8
10-16-2005, 10:41 AM
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Re: Rights and Absolute Morality
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Also I don't see how it follows from 'it is wrong to do something to someone' to 'people have a right not to have that done to them'. [/ QUOTE ] This is backwards from what I'm trying to say, People have a right not to have this done to them, thus it it wrong to do that. [/ QUOTE ] That seems like a good basis for constructing legal frameworks but it doesn't follow that no rights mean no AM as there could be other reasons why something is wrong. [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Not even 'merely'. Morality is (imo) a part of self-interest. The question is which part and what is its nature? [/ QUOTE ] I'm beggining to think that all of morality is rational self-interest. Do you think that there is any situation where someone is being ethical without any regard to his/her own interest? [/ QUOTE ] No I don't. Where I disagree with some others is the idea that morality is some sort of rational juggling of self-interest. Morality is an intrinsic part of self-interest. chez [/ QUOTE ] I find a wallet with $1000 in it. I return it to the man who lost it. Am I being moral? What self-interest am I fulfilling?
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#9
10-16-2005, 10:55 AM
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Re: Rights and Absolute Morality
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Also I don't see how it follows from 'it is wrong to do something to someone' to 'people have a right not to have that done to them'. [/ QUOTE ] This is backwards from what I'm trying to say, People have a right not to have this done to them, thus it it wrong to do that. [/ QUOTE ] That seems like a good basis for constructing legal frameworks but it doesn't follow that no rights mean no AM as there could be other reasons why something is wrong. [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Not even 'merely'. Morality is (imo) a part of self-interest. The question is which part and what is its nature? [/ QUOTE ] I'm beggining to think that all of morality is rational self-interest. Do you think that there is any situation where someone is being ethical without any regard to his/her own interest? [/ QUOTE ] No I don't. Where I disagree with some others is the idea that morality is some sort of rational juggling of self-interest. Morality is an intrinsic part of self-interest. chez [/ QUOTE ] I find a wallet with $1000 in it. I return it to the man who lost it. Am I being moral? What self-interest am I fulfilling? [/ QUOTE ]That if you where to lose your wallet, you would like someone to return it.
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#10
10-16-2005, 11:00 AM
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Re: Rights and Absolute Morality
[ QUOTE ]
Where I disagree with some others is the idea that morality is some sort of rational juggling of self-interest. Morality is an intrinsic part of self-interest. [/ QUOTE ] Could you expand on this a ton.
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