Hand that confuses me alot

Akimka · #1 01-04-2005, 01:24 PM

UTG is strange - very loose (about 70% vpip) and agressive - 18.2 PFR, 4 postflop agr.

I know that i should play it better but where my mistakes?
Should i reraise PF?

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG raises, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets, Hero raises, UTG 3-bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.25 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, UTG raises, Hero calls.

River: (9.25 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks.

Final Pot: 9.25 BB

thirddan · #2 01-04-2005, 01:27 PM

i don't really see any point in 3betting preflop since you are out of position against someone that will cap with a wide variety of hands and you are already heads up...

i think i would just check/call this down, at no point in the hand do i really want to get raised or make him stop betting with unimproved overcards so i think that calling down is best...

Walrus · #3 01-04-2005, 01:35 PM

Any votes for check-calling until the river, and then betting out? If you take this line, what do you do if you are raised on the river?

Octopus · #4 01-04-2005, 01:37 PM

No, I wouldn't re-raise pre-flop. Doing so wouldn't be bad though, if you thought he might lay down something like a middle pair later. A high post-flop aggression factor could be showing you that he is willing to fold; only by looking at the actual hands could you tell. (It could also just show that you have few hands with him and he happened to be running good in those hands.)

As for post flop, I would just call it down. Do not reward maniacs by building big pots for them when they could easily be ahead. Let them build big pots for you when they are probably behind. While there is no reason to think you are behind here, there is also no reason to think that you are ahead.

If you did end up winning this hand, make a note of his play for next time.

thirddan · #5 01-04-2005, 01:57 PM

"If you take this line, what do you do if you are raised on the river? "

That is why i dont like your line...

Walrus · #6 01-04-2005, 02:05 PM

Yeah, I agree with you, and I wasn't necessarily advocating taking this line. But I was curious if anyone thought this was a situation for it, like sthief09 has been advocating lately.

thirddan · #7 01-04-2005, 02:07 PM

i haven't been around lately so i missed sthiefs threads (sorry)...but i think this line works best because there is little reason to fear a raise on the river against most opponents, but the villain in this hand is a maniac so we would probably have to call a river raise...

The callcallbet line is usually used for stronger hands than third pair, such as TPGK...

Walrus · #8 01-04-2005, 02:11 PM

fwiw...

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...551&Forum=

krishanleong · #9 01-04-2005, 02:13 PM

I think check calling this down is really bad. You have a pair. He is raising with a ton of hands: 18%.

On the flop, you are very likely ahead to overcards or a smaller pair. Put some bets in. On the turn you are still ahead of a ton of hands. Put some bets in. Check calling the river after the turn agression is fine.

[ QUOTE ]
at no point in the hand do i really want to get raised or make him stop betting with unimproved overcards

[/ QUOTE ]
If I can get him to fold the turn with unimproved overcards, that's fine by me. I don't think you could make him fold, I just think the thinking is wrong here.

For all the people who are tempted to call down, the call/call/bet line is made for you. I'm more agressive and want to try and get more bets when I have a good chance at being ahead against a maniac.

Krishan

thirddan · #10 01-04-2005, 02:18 PM

i assume that you are showing this hand down no matter what...so at what point do you go into call down mode if you want to put in multiple bets on the flop and turn? your hand decent but there are plenty that beat it, im not convinced that i want to be putting in lots of bets with this hand...