Is this game +EV/-EV???

Foxwoods NLHE's lowest level is the $1/$2 NL with a set buy in max of $100, min. $40. There is also a time change for all NL games there of $5 every half hour. Between blind and time charge I believe this game has -EV no matter your skill.

the $2/$5 has a time charge but also allows you to bring in for $200-$500 and obviously the time charge has a smaller affect on your playing.

i believe the change at the 1/2 game punishes someone for playing tight.. as well as only a $100 buy in makes it a crapshoot.

comments?

[Aisthesis]

Hmmmm... I generally figure 20 BB/100 (including rake) is crushing a game, 10 BB/100 is doing pretty well. You play around 100 hands in 3 hours. So, at a 1/2, 20 BB/100 translates to $13 per hour, 10 BB/100 to just under $7. That would mean that crushing the 1/2 would give you a net (deducting $10 per hour for the new strucutre) of only $3 and just doing well would be an actual loss of over $3 per hour.

Add to that the very low allowable initial stack-size, and, I agree, it's not really worth playing...

yeah i have a friend of mine who is a very skilled player and he either has a huge night or doesn't come close. You either hit your draws or not, because you never get appropriate odds in a game like this. the players are absolutely terrible and just throw $40 into a $15 pot.. so whenever he has a 4 flush on the flop or a draw like that which is strong he jams the pot.. investing a lot against multiple opponents. the games are wildly LAG, and with the amount you invest with supreme conditions (fast hand rate, good table) you can barely make money.

thanks for the input.

[pzhon]

I think it is easily +EV for a good player. The fish are far worse than in an online NL game with a $2 big blind.

Example: I hadn't played a hand for a couple of orbits. I raised to $10 in UTG+1, 8-handed. The UTG player remarked, "Watch out, the quiet guy raised!" 3 out of 6 of the people behind me called anyway, including one who looked me up on the river with A4o. He overcalled on the flop with TPNK.

I conjecture that the lowest stake NL game in any casino or any online site is a (proportionate) gold mine.

All depends on the how bad the fish are. They were using the same $5/half hour structure for 1/2 NL at Turning Stone during the summer, but the game was so loose/passive with drunks and just general idiots that ev was still hugely positive - you could expect to get doubled up regularly.

[ohnonotthat]

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I conjecture that the lowest stake NL game in any casino or any online site is a (proportionate) gold mine.

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I won't address online since the lowest stake game here is often so small as to be meaningless in terms of $.

As to live poker, I believe your statement is indisputable - other than when the room/game selection is so small there is no appreciable difference between the smallest, biggest, or any game in between. (The most extreme example being the one-table room).

- I'm not sure I draw any distinction between limit and NL; the smallest game in almost any cardtroom is usually far and away the easiest.

The typical straggler, who KNOWS he hasn't a shot but wants the thrill of having tried, also wants said thrill to be affordable.

"NEWBIE, 3-6 holdem, NEWBIE, 3-6 holdem - JOE, NEWBIE is here, lock up that seat".

[AlanBostick]

The critical factor is this:

At a ten-handed table, with each player paying $5 per half-hour, then $100/hour will be disappearing down the slot.

How often are players rebuying? For how much?

As long as more than one player rebuys for $100 (or three or more rebuys of $40) in an hour, the game is beatable.

Another way of looking at it: How much money do you see at the table when the game is going?

Ten players can buy in for a maximum of $100. The maximum the table can have at the start is $1000. If the game has been going for several hours, then if there is less than $1000 on the table then it's all going down the slot and the game is not beatable. But if there is more money on the table, then it is staying on the table long enough to be won.

My experience with similar games in California is that they are eminently, easily beatable with a bare minimum of skill.

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My experience with similar games in California is that they are eminently, easily beatable with a bare minimum of skill.

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Same here.. I think there is a slightly different strategy you need for these games. In many So. Cali rooms its $100 max buying with $2/$3 blinds. When I used to primarily play this game, I figured I needed at least $250 in front of me to play my normal game, but that in general it never took long to get this much (usually after a few reloads). I have never had an easier time beating a NL game than that one.