Even Republicans are calling for an Iraq pullout

LaggyLou · #1 08-19-2005, 09:23 AM

For those who do not know, Chuck Hagel is a Republican Senator from Nebraska.

...
Hagel, a Vietnam veteran, acknowledged the U.S. military presence was becoming harder and harder to justify. He believes Iraq faces a serious danger of civil war that would threaten Middle East stability, and said there is little Washington can do to avert this.

"We are seen as occupiers, we are targets. We have got to get out. I don't think we can sustain our current policy, nor do I think we should," he said at one stop.

UNCERTAINTY, NOT PANIC

In an interview, Hagel said uncertainties over Iraq and oil prices fed off and reinforced each other.

"The mood is one of a certain sense of unsteadiness," he said. "I have sensed that since September 11, 2001. Our people have still not found an equilibrium and when you get these shocks, like gasoline at $2.50 a gallon and projecting natural gas costs doubling and tripling from what they paid last year, that further shakes them."

"I don't think there's panic, I don't think there's cynicism. I think there's this steady unsure sense about where is this all leading -- the constant daily reports on Iraq, our people being killed there, the money being spent there," he added.

Nebraska has been a solid Republican state in presidential elections for decades. Republicans dominate state politics and hold most elective offices.

But Hagel said even some who had previously backed Bush strongly on Iraq now felt deep unease.

"The feeling that I get back here, looking in the eyes of real people, where I knew where they were two years ago or a year ago -- they've changed," he said. "These aren't people who ebb and flow on issues. These are rock solid, conservative Republicans who love their country, support the troops and support the president."

Hagel said Bush faced a growing credibility gap. "The expectations that the president and his administration presented to the American people 2 1/2 years ago is not what the reality is today. That's presented the biggest credibility gap problem he's got," he said.

Source

vulturesrow · #2 08-19-2005, 09:47 AM

Nice stretch from Hagel ----> Republicans. First off, Hagel has been critical of the Iraq war for quite some time now, its not like he had some recent change of heart. Secondly, most Republicans, and actually most Dems, believe we should stay the course in Iraq.

Matty · #3 08-19-2005, 10:01 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Secondly, most Republicans, and actually most Dems, believe we should stay the course in Iraq.

[/ QUOTE ]No, only 28% of Americans agree with that. 56% think we should withdraw some or all.

http://www.pollingreport.com/iraq.htm

vulturesrow · #4 08-19-2005, 10:12 AM

56% agree with the vague statement that we should pull some or all of our troops out of Iraq. Hell I agree with that too. The time context is the important issue. I think most people realize the necessity of trying to ensure stability in Iraq before we withdraw.

coffeecrazy1 · #5 08-19-2005, 10:32 AM

Forgive what may seem like a dumb question, but really isnt...

President Bush and many other prominent Republicans have spoken to the need to ensure stability in Iraq. Maybe I'm being a bit isolationist, but why is it that we need to this?

Do I think that Iraqis should die? No. Do I want peace in the Middle East, even though it hasn't happened in 2000 years? Of course. Do I believe that it is our responsibility to remain in Iraq until that peace is achieved? NO.

LaggyLou · #6 08-19-2005, 10:35 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Nice stretch from Hagel ----> Republicans. First off, Hagel has been critical of the Iraq war for quite some time now, its not like he had some recent change of heart. Secondly, most Republicans, and actually most Dems, believe we should stay the course in Iraq.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is Hagel not a Republican? Or is your point that he is just one person, and I used the plural? How about Walter Jones:

WASHINGTON -- Roughly two years ago, Rep. Walter Jones led the campaign to rename french fries, turning "freedom fries" into a symbol of protest over France's opposition to the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq.

On Thursday, the North Carolina congressman introduced legislation calling on President Bush to begin withdrawing U.S. forces from Iraq by the autumn of 2006.

source
(note that the story is from last month, so "Thursday" does not mean yesterday)

And btw, what does "stay the course" mean, here? What course do you believe we are on, and when will we know that the "course" is over?

vulturesrow · #7 08-19-2005, 11:00 AM

We need to do this because A) we are the reason that Iraq is in the situation it is in now and B) the future rewards of having a stable, [hopefully] U.S. friendly country in the region are great.

vulturesrow · #8 08-19-2005, 11:03 AM

Mostly I just found your use of the word "Republicans" a bit disingenous since you were posting the opinions of 1 Republican congressman, but its a minor point.

[ QUOTE ]
And btw, what does "stay the course" mean, here? What course do you believe we are on, and when will we know that the "course" is over?

[/ QUOTE ]

It means a fully functional and established goverment and a self sufficient, fully capable police force. Thats what it means to me at any rate.

coffeecrazy1 · #9 08-19-2005, 11:09 AM

You know, I think Pres. Bush would garner much more support for this war if he'd come right out and say both A) and B), since I know that if A) is not a real reason, B) most certainly is...and they might even cop to A) if pressed.

Seriously, my opinion(which is actually not all that bad) of our Iraq operations would go up if Bush would just say something like,

"You know, I'm not sure that we should have gone into Iraq, but now, we've made a big mess, and we've got to be responsible for that and clean it up. Frankly, the Middle East has too many resources for us to just blow off, so we need to stick around and see if we can't make this thing work."

Now...I know there's no way in hell he'd say something that straightforward...no politician would...but it would still be nice.

TransientR · #10 08-19-2005, 11:16 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Forgive what may seem like a dumb question, but really isnt...

President Bush and many other prominent Republicans have spoken to the need to ensure stability in Iraq. Maybe I'm being a bit isolationist, but why is it that we need to this?

Do I think that Iraqis should die? No. Do I want peace in the Middle East, even though it hasn't happened in 2000 years? Of course. Do I believe that it is our responsibility to remain in Iraq until that peace is achieved? NO.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, unfortunately we invaded Iraq, dissolved their army, and decided to engage in nation building. I hate Bush and was totally against the war, but we do have some responsibility to try to stabilize the country and deliver on our promises.

Now some argue that if we pull our troops out, it will weaken the insurgency because the insurgents use the idea that we are alien occupiers as a recruiting tool. I think this is a risky notion at best.

Fact is Bush and Co. lead us into a terrible, expensive and bloody mess, but you make a mess, you are under some obligation to try to clean it up. Unfortunately the people paying the price are not W, Cheney, and Wolfowitz (they are Chickenhawks who never had the guts to fight themselves, but are good at macho posturing safely from the sidelines), but our soldiers. And that sucks [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Frank