KK: raise more on flop?

[RobGW]

I don't necessarily think pushing the flop is a bad thing. The pot is big. It would be ok if you pushed and won it. There are several players involved and lots of draws. If they have an overpair, flush draw, or str8 draw they will probably call a push anyways. Obviously you cant fold KK here so I think making them pay the ultimate price is fine. By raising anything less sometimes they can call for implied odds, that is if you aren't willing to fold when it looks like they hit and with this big of a pot and KK I wouldn't even consider that. The way you played it was ok I think without knowing what they had at the time, but pushing is something to think about.

[45suited]

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I don't necessarily think pushing the flop is a bad thing. The pot is big. It would be ok if you pushed and won it. There are several players involved and lots of draws. If they have an overpair, flush draw, or str8 draw they will probably call a push anyways. Obviously you cant fold KK here so I think making them pay the ultimate price is fine. By raising anything less sometimes they can call for implied odds, that is if you aren't willing to fold when it looks like they hit and with this big of a pot and KK I wouldn't even consider that. The way you played it was ok I think without knowing what they had at the time, but pushing is something to think about.

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Thanks for the responses guys. Pushing DID cross my mind more than a little bit. But I didn't want to let UTG's weak a$$ blocking bet dictate my play of the hand. However, due to the 3 calls of my pre-flop raise, the pot was very large already, and it is usually my style of play to simply put my chips in and take those pots down.

[wildzer0]

OK, after reading the replies I have another comment, and a further defense for pushing the flop. When you overbet the pot there, many opponents will instantly read you for 2 big unpaired cards trying to steal and will play sheriff with smaller pocket pairs. Bad players love to call overbets with weak hands because they think they're going to catch you bluffing.

[45suited]

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OK, after reading the replies I have another comment, and a further defense for pushing the flop. When you overbet the pot there, many opponents will instantly read you for 2 big unpaired cards trying to steal and will play sheriff with smaller pocket pairs. Bad players love to call overbets with weak hands because they think they're going to catch you bluffing.

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Believe me, I don't think pushing the flop needs to be defended. I seriously considered it at the time.

But, say UTG had checked. Would this be an open push then on this flop? I just looked at his bet as, "Well, maybe the guy has a couple of overs and whiffed. My hand's okay and I'd really like for him not to bet anything." So I raised instead of pushing. I think I should have either raised a bit more or just pushed. My default play would be to push here.

Since the flop has two of a suit and you have one of those suits, I really like a 350 bet here.

If it had two of a suit which I didnt have I'd instapush.

If it was rainbow I'd bet somewhere around where you did.

[wildzer0]

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[ QUOTE ]
OK, after reading the replies I have another comment, and a further defense for pushing the flop. When you overbet the pot there, many opponents will instantly read you for 2 big unpaired cards trying to steal and will play sheriff with smaller pocket pairs. Bad players love to call overbets with weak hands because they think they're going to catch you bluffing.

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Believe me, I don't think pushing the flop needs to be defended. I seriously considered it at the time.

But, say UTG had checked. Would this be an open push then on this flop? I just looked at his bet as, "Well, maybe the guy has a couple of overs and whiffed. My hand's okay and I'd really like for him not to bet anything." So I raised instead of pushing. I think I should have either raised a bit more or just pushed. My default play would be to push here.

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I see, we're looking at this in sort of an opposite way. I'm more likely to push after his donk bet because I think a push looks like more of a scared bet. I'm hoping he reads a push here as "He's trying to bully me out of this pot because he thinks I have a better hand then him". I think a pot sized bet looks stronger to your opponents here, especially since you're basically comitted after that. They're more likely to think you have a hand you really want to get your chips in with but you don't want to lose any customers. Or else they're thinking "weee! I've got pocket 3's. That's the nuts!", what do I know? [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]