Straight on turn....do you play different?

bubbahotep · #1 05-17-2005, 11:12 PM

This was going to be my last hand of the evening. I get KTs so I have to play it. Maniac had raised and WAY overplayed the last two pots. No great reads on villain. He's pretty new to the table. Maybe 5-10 hands that he played half of.

Paradise Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero calls, Maniac raises, MP1 calls, 4 folds, SB :fish calls, BB :Villain calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (10 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
fish bets, Villain calls, Hero raises, Maniac 3-bets, MP1 folds, fish caps, Villain calls, Hero calls, Maniac calls.

Turn: (13 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
fish bets, Villain calls, Hero raises, Maniac 3-bets, fish caps, Villain calls, Hero calls, Maniac calls.

River: (29 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
fish checks, Villain bets, Hero calls, Maniac raises, fish folds, Villain 3-bets, Hero calls, Maniac calls.

Final Pot: 38 BB

Do you play any streets different? I figure I have to call the river. I was nearly positive I was beat. I hated calling 2 bets after all that action, but I couldnt bring myself to fold with the pot so big and the nut straight. Would you do the same or are you stronger willed?

I feel like I play out too many hands but was this one justified?

milesdyson · #2 05-18-2005, 12:04 AM

The river 8 makes anyone with a T a straight. Your K high straight beats that Q high straight. That said, I would probably fold the river and pray I didn't fold the best hand.

*I am not saying this is correct, but I don't see you winning here enough to make it profitable. You can always call for your sanity.

JDErickson · #3 05-18-2005, 12:04 AM

I play the same. Sucks if you lost

Stuey · #4 05-18-2005, 12:23 AM

I can't fold it either but I think the right play is to fold it when facing 2 bets. I think you have to call one bet. I think it might be better to fold when it comes around for 2 more bets though. It is clear from your tone you lost to a flush. But I have seen guys bet this way on this type of board with trips, two pair or the idiot end of the str8.

You don't have to be right very often to make calling the river bets correct. But very often you will be left feeling like "I knew it why didn't I fold".

I am not sure why others have not replied. The answer must be obvious to most. And good chance you played it perfectly. If the stakes were higher we would fold facing 2 more bets for sure right?

One of you really smart guys clear this up for us okies?

Weatherhead03 · #5 05-18-2005, 02:45 AM

I couldnt see how you could play it any better...we can tell by the sound of things that you must have lost to a flush but to make that call and only win a small amount of times still makes it profitable in the long run. 38BB is a lot to give up if you ended up folding the winning hand which easily could be the nutz straight

adsman · #6 05-18-2005, 03:17 AM

I would bet me left testicle that villian has the flush. He straddled along the whole hand while everyone was betting and raising and then bets straight out on the river. Why didn't he wait for the checkraise? Because he was afraid that it might get checked through with the flush scare card.

It's a huge pot. You're getting something like 17 to 1. But it's two back to you on the river with two opponents who like their hands. The only reason I can find for calling here is that you would be prone to going on major tilt if you did in fact fold the winning hand.

scotty34 · #7 05-18-2005, 03:40 AM

To be honest, I think I go against the grain here and fold this. Villain had been just taggin along the whole way, calling up to 3 bets cold, and showing absolutely no aggression. All of a sudden, a 3rd diamond hits and he wakes up on the river. I would have certainly called that original river bet, but then maniac raises and Villain makes it 3 bets. Sure some idiots try to bluff a scare card like that, but they won't make it 3 bets. It was capped on every street, and Villain is not scared. You need to be good ~1 in 20 times here to make a profitable call, and I'm just not seeing it. Villain has a flush, and I'm betting its probably the nut flush.

2+2 wannabe · #8 05-18-2005, 04:36 AM

there's no way you can fold this hand on the river - you're getting 19:1 on this call (need to win just >5% to break even) - like Ed says "you can't read opponents to 95% certainty". seriously, if you fold this hand you deserve an ass-kicking.

adsman · #9 05-18-2005, 06:18 AM

[ QUOTE ]
there's no way you can fold this hand on the river - you're getting 19:1 on this call (need to win just >5% to break even) - like Ed says "you can't read opponents to 95% certainty". seriously, if you fold this hand you deserve an ass-kicking.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ed also says;

"...Even if you are sure you are beaten, when the pot is large on the river, do not fold decent hands for one bet."

This isn't one bet. It's two back to you with two opponents who like their hands. Plus the chance that it could get capped behind you.

bubbahotep · #10 05-18-2005, 09:46 AM

It was a flush by villain playing 7,5 of diamonds. When he called 2 early and then called another he felt like a flush draw to me. I was praying that diamond wouldnt come and it did and I knew he would be the one to put the screws to me. When he raised it, that confirmed it for me and I had the maniac to act again after me which really sucked. I felt 90% sure he had me beat. If the pot was smaller I would have considered the fold more.

If I folded and saw I would have won that 40bb pot, I would have bit down on a rifle barrel I think. It was worth the 2 bb to save my sanity. I guess its like insurance. I need to learn not to take this game so seriously!