Another 10-20 Hand.. FOURTH STREET.......

[CJC]

Heighty--Ho........

The continuing saga of a 10-20 FW hand..

3rd Street Review
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I am forced low with 5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img])
I bring it in for $3
10 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] completes to $10
Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] makes it $20
A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] makes it $30
A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] cold calls

I decide to cap it at $40 and everyone calls..

Now On to Fourth Street
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ME --7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img])
10 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 10 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Now the A-10 to my right is High. He checks..
I check my sevens ( which confused the table )
10-2 checks
Q-2 checks
Suited A-6 bets $10
A-10 calls
I RAISE to $20.................

Thoughts.......

CJ

[Gitz]

CJ,

So far I don't see anything wrong. I see quite a few cards of mimicry but none in your hand. StFl plus a pair on 4 looks great to me.

Paul

[MRBAA]

I still think the cap on 3rd isn't worth it. But I like this raise a lot. If you can get anyone to fold a pair at this point, it's huge +EV given how much is in the pot. Plus you really get alot of deception out of this play -- they've got to think there's a good chance you're rolled.

[patrick dicaprio]

the raise is too tricky for my taste, the pot is so large now that you will probably be called the whole way. if you were trying to semibluff why not wait until fifth street so if they all catch blanks they might actually fold?

Pat

[patrick dicaprio]

i just saw that you posted another post on this hand below. sorry i didnt get in on it earlier! FWIW you clearly cant fold on third street on that hand. i dont mind the cap as much as some others as you probably have an edge on the extra money.

one more thought on the fourth street play here. by checkraising you are clearly representing trips. but a good player might believe you have trips. but a better player (which these guys arent)might know that you dont have trips because you probably wouldnt make it so obvious.

so my earlier response isnt the whole story. i wouldnt raise here because even if i represnt trips no one is folding anyway and you are probably going to be tied on if you catch two pair or some other hands that you dont want to have to call for. later on with a huge pot you probably will be faced with desperation raises that you dont want to call. at least that is what i usually faced when i was playing 10-20 stud at FW. unfortunately (or fortunately?) i am now playing NL holdem online since i have the new baby and cant get to the casino that often.

Pat

[Andy B]

I'm confused too.

I don't think you're going to knock too many people out, and I don't think you want to. It is good that your spades and straight cards are live, but I'm not looking to pair up with this hand. If you can get everyone to believe you're rolled-up, great, but I have to believe that you're going to have to show down the best hand, and I don't think that pairing your Seven is a step in the right direction.

I recommend catching another Seven on fifth street.

[MRBAA]

To the contrary, often bad players will have come in with very little and will now fold, since you "surely" must have been rolled. This pot is huge and you want them out with any pair.

[Andy B]

They called four bets with "very little" on third street, and now they're going to fold for two more? I think not.

[CJC]

Hi Andy,

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think you're going to knock too many people out, and I don't think you want to .

[/ QUOTE ]

You have touched upon the very reason I wanted to post the hand...( the continuing version of it at least )

We have $204 ( after rake ) in the pot on 3rd street.
I clearly have a hand that I am playing/paying here on 4th.

BUT

by the way the boards are developing right now here on 4th. You don't think I am better off trying to get at least the

10 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

hands out? ( especially the Queen hand.. I think I really want him out )

I know the two Ace hands aren't going anywhere...but that's not too bad, cause from the info I have at this point.. they are playing 'deader' hands

I will elaborate more on 4th after more responses..

Later,

CJ

[Michael Davis]

I have no problem capping on 3rd, and I think this play is fine. First, you have a hand that, barring your competing with an unlikely monster (rolled) is easily worth two bets on fourth street. If everyone calls, you get value on the money going into the pot, but if somebody folds, you gain value from the money already in the pot.

I don't see any negative to raising here, and since the pot is huge, I think you definitely want someone to fold even if just to slightly move up your chances of winning with two pair or trip 7s. If nobody folds, you still have a powerful drawing hand, but will have to play it as such the rest of the way.

An alternative, as someone pointed out, and probably a pretty good one, would be waiting until 5th street, seeing how the boards develop, and then consider raising even if you catch a total blank.

-Michael