Do I need to bet to win this pot?

TripleH68 · #1 11-28-2005, 11:19 AM

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

BB is weak. 13/2/0.33. WTSD=14.
UTG Villain is 65/6/0.75. WTSD=44%. These stats only through 50 hands.
Villain and I have tangled several times and he has gotten the better of me.
I think his flop bet is suspect.
At this point I don't think he thinks I am making this play without a hand.

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, 4 folds, Hero calls, 1 fold, BB raises, UTG+2 calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, UTG+2 bets, Hero raises, BB folds, UTG+2 calls.

Turn: (5.25 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+2 checks, Hero bets, UTG+2 calls.

River: (7.25 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+2 checks, Hero ?

What do you think on every street?
Is the preflop play terrible?

sean c · #2 11-28-2005, 11:26 AM

Hi TripleH this looks a little tilty post flop to me. As played i check the river through villian didn't fold the turn (he probably would have if he was bluffing)and probably isn't folding a hand your behind on the river. Check and hope he has Q10.

belloc · #3 11-28-2005, 11:27 AM

This guy is pretty passive postflop. I think you're going to get called just like he's been calling you all the way down. The flop isolation is fine; this is the guy you want to be playing HU, but without a pair, I don't think you're good much here. He might be coldcalling preflop with a lot of hands that you beat on this board with ace high, but more often it's going to be a little pair or a weak ace (but it's stronger than yours).

I think I check/fold the turn and the river UI.

mtdoak · #4 11-28-2005, 11:28 AM

I think this is the classic free showdown situation. If he has something like QT, your winning. But why, oh why, are you trying to bluff a calling station.

mack848 · #5 11-28-2005, 11:37 AM

I don't think that this was the spot for a flop raise. A weak player needs a decent hand to raise from the BB, so cannot be expected to fold often enough for this to work. Add to this the facts that you don't even have much of a draw and are also up against a 44% WtSD, so probably don't have much fold equity - and I think I fold it.

winky51 · #6 11-28-2005, 01:55 PM

1. vs a limper, raise on the button to get it heads up with Axs. If he has Ax he will probably fold the flop to 2 big overs, if he had somethig like KJ you are ahead and have position. if he limped with AA.... well you're screwed and he's an idiot for limping with AA, poop happens.
2. Since you raise preflop fold the hand on the flop, you're behind. If he has the J your dead, 9 drawing to 3 outs, OE draw he has 14 outs to beat you. Fold.

TripleH68 · #7 11-28-2005, 04:28 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

BB is weak. 13/2/0.33. WTSD=14.
UTG Villain is 65/6/0.75. WTSD=44%. These stats only through 50 hands.
Villain and I have tangled several times and he has gotten the better of me.
I think his flop bet is suspect.
At this point I don't think he thinks I am making this play without a hand.

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, 4 folds, Hero calls, 1 fold, BB raises, UTG+2 calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, UTG+2 bets, Hero raises, BB folds, UTG+2 calls.

Turn: (5.25 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+2 checks, Hero bets, UTG+2 calls.

River: (7.25 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+2 checks, Hero ?

What do you think on every street?
Is the preflop play terrible?

[/ QUOTE ]

On the river my instinct was to check behind.

I bet though on the chance of folding hands like AT,A8,A7,88,77,66.
The pot was laying me 7:1 at that point.

I also did not want to check and showdown my bluff at this point in the game. I would rather have villain fold. Is there any point to this or is it just me feeling a little weak?

Villain played the turn quickly. He hesitated on the river and then folded. I add this only because I am trying to become more aware of draws playing quickly on the turn.

SenecaJim · #8 11-28-2005, 04:51 PM

Check behind. I would say you are beat and he's not folding a hand that beats A high for one bet on river.

QTip · #9 11-28-2005, 06:08 PM

After you raise PF, this hand plays differently.

W. Deranged · #10 11-28-2005, 06:14 PM

I play each of the first three streets differently:

1. Raise pre-flop. A-high easily has an edge against the 2/3 of all hands which he is playing.

2. I see no reason to raise this flop. If we think A-high has an equity edge we should raise pre-flop... Oh wait...

3. Check-behind on the turn probably. This guys only folding inferior hands, he's passive enough that if we check behind we can fold to a river donk-bet, giving a free card in a sub-6 BB pot is really not giving that much away, and any equity edge we had pre-flop is no longer clearly present as we've totally missed the flop and the turn.

4. Check the river. This guy's like never folding a better hand, and I think it's mental spewing to think there's value in a bet here.