i think this line sucks.

TStoneMBD · #1 05-24-2005, 05:17 AM

villain is 41/14/1.2 after 22 hands. no reads.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, MP calls, 2 folds, Hero raises, BB calls, UTG calls, MP calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, BB folds, UTG raises, MP folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (6 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets, Hero calls.

River: (8 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets, Hero raises, UTG folds.

Final Pot: 11 BB

JDalla · #2 05-24-2005, 05:27 AM

I don't understand raising the river here as opposed to raising the turn. If he is on a draw, he is calling your turn raise, not your river raise. If he has an 8 he is more likely to call the turn raise, as a river bluff might seem less likely by you.

A safer play (not sure on EV+-) would be to lead the turn, so that a 7 would only be paid off another 3 BB, instead the 4 that a checkraise on the turn or river would cost.

mperich · #3 05-24-2005, 05:31 AM

I like a turn lead as well. This guy is too passive and the king is a scarecard. Also the board is too drawheavy.
If I do check the turn its with the intention of c/ring.

-Mike

TStoneMBD · #4 05-24-2005, 05:36 AM

i thought that by checkraising the river, it would be less likely of him to raise trips as im representing a boat then if i raised the turn. also, i think he would be more likely to pay off to a river checkraise with a 1 pair type hand but i could be wrong. i think leading out on the turn is the smart approach here, but im still confused.

JDalla · #5 05-24-2005, 05:46 AM

In my experience, most players who flop trips don't fear boats to a river c/r, and will go ahead and 3 bet. I think the only hands he could have that would make the river checkraise "worthwhile" would be Kx, Jx, 8x, and maybe some pocket pairs.

lostinthought · #6 05-24-2005, 10:03 AM

I like leading the turn here as well. You lose less when you are behind, but you still extract at least 2 to showdown.

It also prevents villian from taking a free card.

basically a reiteration of what everybody else said.

Wynton · #7 05-24-2005, 10:14 AM

I like your line. If you check/raise the turn, villain might fold right there. I suppose you could have led turn, but wouldn't you have made the same amount as you did anyway?

ctv1116 · #8 05-24-2005, 11:28 AM

Yes, I don't like this line. What do you hope to accomplish? Extract an extra bet out of a flush draw or bluffer? Most flush draws or gutshots just give up and check the river, and he's not bluffing that often.

At 5/10 an 8 is going to call down if you lead out or c/r the turn. I've seen people call turn c/r with as little as a gutshot. They aren't doing that on the river when they can't chase.

If he has a 7, you're losing the same amount whether you turn c/r or river c/r. In fact, if you're willing to lay down AK to a turn 3bet, you might even save 2 bets with the turn c/r.

I'm trying to put some more thought into hand posts, so I'd hope to get some feedback on my anaylsis. Thanks.

wheelz · #9 05-24-2005, 11:46 AM

I think check-raising is actually my default there. Is that bad? I get a "he's just bluffing that king" call down most of the time, so I thought it was my best option.

Chobohoya · #10 05-24-2005, 11:53 AM

I agree with the title. Raise the turn here, your river raise does not have value.