A/Q, did I spew?

marchron · #1 07-16-2005, 04:04 PM

I try not to spew, but sometimes I do. So I'll show it to you.

Okay, enough Dr. Seuss.

No real reads, as I was devoting more attention to an SNG I was in, but wanted something to occupy the slow points.

Advice on all streets, please.

.25/.50, 9-handed, CO posts .25

Preflop: marchron is UTG with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
marchron raises, 2 folds, MP2 calls, 2 folds, BT reraises, 2 folds, marchron calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (11.5 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
marchron bets, MP2 raises, BT calls, marchron calls.

I bet to steal it and called for the flush draw. Bad move? Probably.

Turn: (8.5 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
marchron checks, MP2 bets, BT calls, marchron calls.

Spewwwwww . . .

River: (11.5 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
marchron checks, MP2 checks, BT checks.

I figured my queens were good and wanted to check-raise the more aggressive players. Too fancy?

Final Pot: 11 BB (after rake)

Eeegah · #2 07-16-2005, 04:28 PM

What do you mean spew on the turn? Calling is hardly spewing.

You have so many outs on the flop it's not even funny. I'd seriously consider capping.

No problems with the turn.

The river...eh, keep in mind he may have flopped a flush. If you don't think he has it and are pretty sure he'll bet (he sure looks like he will) then a c/r will indeed trap at least MP1 for an extra bet, but if he has his flush he'll just up your c/r and you'll be down two more. I think I'd rather just bet out and call a raise.

I'd be more inclined to c/r if the flop wasn't a 3 flush.

Joel_Fish · #3 07-16-2005, 05:03 PM

Are you sure he has so many outs on the flop? BT 3-bet preflop and called two cold on the flop. I would put him on a good PP or two overcards, one of which is a [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], and either way we could easily be drawing to a second best hand.

I really don't like the idea of a river c/r. I'm not even certain a river bet would be for value. Could someone convince me that it is?

@bsolute_luck · #4 07-16-2005, 05:05 PM

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You have so many outs on the flop it's not even funny. I'd seriously consider capping.

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major spewage.

DCWildcat · #5 07-16-2005, 05:08 PM

Disclaimer: I'm not trying to be mean. I'm only using words as strong as these to most accurately convey my emphasis.

I think your need to pay way more attention to your pot odds. There's no way in hell calling getting 10.5 to 1 on the turn with a Q high flush draw and 2 overcards is ever going to be spewing. You could EASILY call this getting only 2 to 1. This is a brain-dead call.

Preflop is fine, flop is fine, I'd probably bet out the river rather than check-raise. You're far more likely to squeeze out 1 bet than to check-raise a worse hand for 2 here.

dozer · #6 07-16-2005, 05:24 PM

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I bet to steal it and called for the flush draw. Bad move? Probably.

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No one is going to fold if you bet this flop so I wouldn't try to steal it. Just check/call the flop, you are not drawing to a K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] But the pot is big you should still chase, even though you could be drawing slim. You must remember that you got 3-bet preflop, you will not win by betting most of the time, and there is not much value in pumping a non-nut one card flush draw.

I see no reason to check raise the river. check/call to induce a bluff from a busted flush draw or just bet out. If you check raise no one is calling with a lone diamond.

DCWildcat · #7 07-16-2005, 05:28 PM

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I bet to steal it and called for the flush draw. Bad move? Probably.

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No one is going to fold if you bet this flop so I wouldn't try to steal it. Just check/call the flop,

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I still like the bet, or possibly a check-raise. We've got disgusting outs to improve, we want an A or Q to hold up if it hits, and there's a very good chance we're ahead on a flop like this. I think this is an easy value bet or check-raise.

dozer · #8 07-16-2005, 05:37 PM

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I bet to steal it and called for the flush draw. Bad move? Probably.

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No one is going to fold if you bet this flop so I wouldn't try to steal it. Just check/call the flop,

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I still like the bet, or possibly a check-raise. We've got disgusting outs to improve, we want an A or Q to hold up if it hits, and there's a very good chance we're ahead on a flop like this. I think this is an easy value bet or check-raise.

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Hero got 3-bet preflop, what makes you think you are ahead with Ace high on this flop. Yes you have outs, but you can't be sure you are drawing to the best flush , so you can't really pump or bet this flop for value. IMO

DCWildcat · #9 07-16-2005, 05:39 PM

I stand corrected, we aren't the best hand here very often.

marchron · #10 07-17-2005, 10:28 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Disclaimer: I'm not trying to be mean. I'm only using words as strong as these to most accurately convey my emphasis.

I think your need to pay way more attention to your pot odds. There's no way in hell calling getting 10.5 to 1 on the turn with a Q high flush draw and 2 overcards is ever going to be spewing. You could EASILY call this getting only 2 to 1. This is a brain-dead call.

[/ QUOTE ]
Go ahead and haul off on me. Picking up on subtlety isn't exactly one of my strong points.

What is my true out count here? Undiscounted, I'm looking at 15, but they're all tainted in one form or another. Giving 1.5 outs to each overcard is generous, and my flush draw is probably worth about 6 instead of 9. So I'll call it 8 total.

You're right: easy call.

[ QUOTE ]
Preflop is fine, flop is fine, I'd probably bet out the river rather than check-raise. You're far more likely to squeeze out 1 bet than to check-raise a worse hand for 2 here.

[/ QUOTE ]
True, but given the lack of wild aggression after the preflop craziness, I thought I was good. Since one of them would probably bet, I thought I could get in a check-raise.

Did I have the best hand? Nope.

MP2 shows 2d 2s (two pair, sevens and deuces)
BT shows Ks Kd (two pair, Kings and sevens)
marchron mucks Qd Ac (two pair, Queens and sevens)
Outcome: BT wins 11 BB.

The guy with deuces played them like Kings, and the guy with Kings played them like deuces.

Thanks for not charging me the maximum, dude.