Hmm, not sure. Do I suck? KQo

Guido · #1 04-30-2004, 07:44 AM

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Guido is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB completes, Guido raises, SB calls.

Flop: (4 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players) 
SB checks, Guido bets, SB calls.

Turn: (3 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players) 
SB checks, Guido bets, SB calls.

River: (5 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players) 
SB bets, Guido calls.

Final Pot: 7 BB

Randy Burgess · #2 04-30-2004, 07:54 AM

Next time I would put all the hands in one post, even if that post is long. You're looking for a common theme, right?

First point - you overplayed your 99 and KQ hands preflop. You had too many limpers to you to want to cut out the blinds with your 99, and raising KQ vs the SB limper strikes me as knee-jerk aggression. Sure, if the table had folded to you as SB and you held KQ, you would have raised it into the BB - but only because there is some chance he may fold and you can steal. In this case he's already in so you can't.

Second point - I don't love your JJ fold. You're likely losing here to either a straight or a suited big-little with a 4, but I would tend to call down if I didn't yet have a read on the player. I guess if you're having a bad night you tend not to make those marginal calls, though.

sthief09 · #3 04-30-2004, 08:31 AM

Randy

I am glad you've started posting here frequently. You are obviously an experienced player given that you're a writer, which is always good, but what I like most is that many of your views are ones that oppose the "standard" 2+2 views, mainly preflop. You are also able to convey your points clearly, which isn't too common, and something I personally can't do very well.

That being said, I disagree with you with some things here and I'd like for you to explain to me why you have these opinions. For the KQo headsup hand, I don't understand why you don't advocate raising. To take an extreme example, if he had QQ or JJ, he wouldn't be able to get the SB to fold. However, his hand is extraordinarily better than the SB's, so he should raise for pure value. I believe that KQ is the same. He likely has a large preflop advantage and I think that he should push that edge.

I also don't mind his 99 raise. Against the garbage that Party players play, his 99 is a big holding. I realize that there are many people in the pot, but when your hand is that much better than your opponents', I see no reason not to push the edge. I do agree that this is very borderline, but I feel the more aggressive you play preflop, the more action you'll get when you do actually hold AA.

Also, please tell me your opinion on his T8s limp.

Also, I'm interested in hearing about your book. I know you probably feel uncomfortable plugging it in a post that you initiate, so here's your chance [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Styles · #4 04-30-2004, 08:32 AM

Geez dude, save a tree or something [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Guido · #5 04-30-2004, 08:39 AM

Yes, I had a couple of hands in my mailbox and because I had a short vacation I forgot to post them earlier that's why there are so many hands. In most of them, I think, I made a mistake. Sometimes I post a few together but then the responses aren't very good. I know I posted a lot of hands, sorry about that. I'm not planning to go away very soon so it won't happen again in the near future [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img].

Last night was just terrible and because I haven't played in a couple of days I want to make sure where I think I made the mistakes.

Yes, in the T8s hand the table was passive. With one more limper I limp virtually every time.

I don't think I played the 99 hand wrong preflop, flop and turn. I raise 99 almost every time when there aren't any raises in front of me. Not doing so is not a big mistake, I admit, but when you say the raise is wrong I have to disagree with that.

I raise KQo in the BB or SB after one or two limpers as well and I don't think that's wrong. I have probably the best hand, so I raise.

About the JJ hand. I thought this was my only good fold. Like you said you're very likely behind so calling 2 bets, not closing the action on the river doesn't feel right.

Thanks,

Guido

Trix · #6 04-30-2004, 08:41 AM

I haven´t played much 3/6, so I´m not very familar with what people open limps with in the SB and Guido didn´t give a read, but normally I would think KQ is a pretty nice hand against a SB openlimper, so I raise.

Guido · #7 04-30-2004, 08:47 AM

From what I remember he was very loose (like almost everybody at Party [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]).

Guido

CrackerZack · #8 04-30-2004, 08:50 AM

Raise the river.

Not raising this PF is ludicrous. Seriously, give up poker and take up interior design if you're not raising this PF.

Randy Burgess · #9 04-30-2004, 10:09 AM

Thanks for the kind words. And I'm certainly willing to be educated when I'm wrong - many 2+2'ers have much more experience than I do, and at higher limits too.

Here's why I don't like the 99 raise: Yes, you may well be best before the flop in that it's likely no one else has a pocket pair. The problem is, you've got three limpers to you, so it's highly likely they're holding overcards to your pair - among them they may well have a spread of T, J, K, Q, and A, even if individually their hands are lousy. This being low-limit, do you really think you're going to be able to push someone off their pair of Jacks if they're holding QJ or JT or even J9s and the flop comes Jxx? You have to bully your way past too many players. The only reason that 99 is sometimes ranked as a raising hand UTG is that in a tough/tight game you may get headup or three-way with it. In a loose game its pair value goes down. The only time you'd raise with it preflop is a) open-raising in late position, and b) when there are many limpers to you (more than we've got here) and you want to build a big pot so as to tie people on those times that you hit your set.

In this case you're far better off limping to let the blinds in, giving you better odds to flop a set. Plus if the flop comes small you'll have a better chance of knocking out players with a bet or raise than if you had raised preflop and built the pot up.

The above seems absolutely basic to me.

As for KQ, I used to be more in your camp - anytime it was blind vs. blind I'd be very aggressive in either position with big cards. However I have since toned down my position after reading a Bob Ciaffone essay on blind play - it's in "Improve Your Poker." The specific problem I have in this instance is that unless you know your limper well, you don't have a clue as to what he's coming in with - if he has Ax, for example, his hand is actually better than yours. Likewise if he has a small pair. Granted he probably would have raised either of those hands - but not always. In a ring game I would rather play conservatively when it's blind vs. blind because of the rake, and because of the number of hands dealt in. Short-handed I'm a little more willing to be aggressive, and head-up I'm very aggressive. But these are all much different conditions.

As for the T8s limp, I have no problem with it in the game conditions he describes. It's a pure drawing hand, but such hands go up in value while offsuit big cards go down in value in a very loose-passive game.

Last, thanks for asking about the book. A couple of years ago it occured to me that there are hardly any books written to fill the gap between basic beginner books (even ones as good as the Lee Jones book) and the advanced books by Sklansky, Malmuth, etc. I know a lot of posters here say they've read books like HPFAP, but sometimes from their posts I don't think they've understood these books any more than I did when I first started out! So "Stepping Up" is meant to be a book for someone like I was a few years back. I take all the advanced stuff and talk about it in terms I hope a beginner or intermediate player can understand. A big focus is on reading hands and players - that's a huge weapon and not enough has been written about it at the low limits.

Chuck Weinstock was kind enough to like the idea too and go ahead and publish it. You can get a sample chapter at
www.step-up-your-poker.com as a downloadable PDF and see what you think. End of spiel!

stir · #10 04-30-2004, 01:40 PM

Just checked out the sample chapter at the link provided.

Clear, concise and well written. Nicely done.