KQ hand

SuitedDucks · #1 11-15-2005, 11:24 PM

villain is 79/11/.8 donk who calls down with any piece. this is the first time ive seen him be aggresive. original preflop raiser fwiw only has 3.5 BB in the beginning of the hand. comments on flop 3bet and turn call appreciated.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 2 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, 1 fold, Button raises, 1 fold, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (10.50 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, Button raises, Hero 3-bets, UTG+1 caps, Button folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (10.25 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero calls.

River: (12.25 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks.

Final Pot: 12.25 BB

ErrantNight · #2 11-15-2005, 11:45 PM

bet that turn, d00d.

toss · #3 11-15-2005, 11:59 PM

I'm not sure a like betting the turn in this spot. Villain hasn't been aggr before. If he has a 4 the turn changes nothing.

Nick C · #4 11-16-2005, 12:25 AM

If you're ahead on the flop, you're in good shape.

Most worse kings will have kicker outs and all worse kings will have chop outs, but your hand isnt' all that vulnerable, really. Lots of random cards can ruin your hand (if someone catches a set, for instance), but the only thing you know you don't want to see is an ace.

What I'm thinking is that I might just lead the flop, hoping to get calls from pocket pairs and hands that contain aces and then to get raised by Button (after which I can 3-bet, hoping he's investing what's left of his stack in a hand like TT). If someone folds a naked ace, fearing a raise behind him, I don't really mind that either.

Anyway, I don't mind the flop check, but I thought I'd point out that there were other options.

When UTG+1 caps your check/3-bet, that does represent a lot of strength, though I don't know if he knows that or not. Since he's showing strength and he's been passive up until now and he's so loose that in terms of combos he's probably nearly as likely to have a 4 as he is to have a king, I think calling down after the flop cap is fine.

If I somehow knew in advance that he was going to check behind on the river, I would lead that street. But the check behind would have surprised me.

SenecaJim · #5 11-16-2005, 01:36 AM

i've seen a lot of weak players call AK up front tyring to be tricky, etc. Go for a reraise if there is a raiser. Figured he had best kicker for the 2-pair and then got scared at the end that you might have a 4 or thought that it would be a split anyway. imho. I think a turn bet would have helped.

#6 11-16-2005, 02:00 AM

Questions.
What are you putting UTG+1 on on the flop? AA or AK or X4 garbage? The limp PF basically rules out AA. AK is a possibility and a 4 well, hes absolutely magical then.

With that in mind, when you hit top two on the turn. Check call seems pretty weak, its almost like you are scared of him having a 4. Leading the turn or even CR the turn seems much stronger.

I guess the turn line can be bet and call a raise and check call the river.

Villians check on the river baffles me too. Not to be a little results orientated, but I am curious as to what could have happend if you had CR the turn and lead the river. (if he 3 bets on the turn, I am checking the river)

ellipse_87 · #7 11-16-2005, 02:30 AM

If you were multi-tabling, villain's numbers might suggest that there was some previous aggression that you missed. Nonetheless, it's hard to imagine him capping against pfr and you with a lower pocket pair; I discount AK almost completely given his pfr% and his opportunity to limp-reraise pf.

It's hard to find a legitimate hand that's not a four, but KJ/KT/Kx, especially in spades, definitely qualifies with this obviously loose and undisciplined player. Maybe he's seen one or both of you fold a few turns and is semi-bluffing with these hands. And obviously he could have KQo.

If I continue on the basis that he could have Kx (which I think we can), then I can't fold to a turn raise if I lead. I think he has a 4 better than 50% of the time, though, so I call down.

SuitedDucks · #8 11-16-2005, 05:57 PM

for those interested, villain shows K8 and MHIG.

in the heat of battle(while multitableing), i assumed a bit early that villain probably had a 4 and didnt carefully think about other possible holdings. I called the turn cuz the Q bought me two extra outs. anyway thanks for the analysis.