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#1
12-06-2005, 01:28 AM
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Re: s
[ QUOTE ]
I think raising the flop for value is almost certainly wrong. My game would be pretty damn aggro if my standard read for an unknown is that they'll call down here with a hand like 66; I'm not buying it. [/ QUOTE ] I don't understand what you're saying here. Don't you want to be called down by 66? 
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#2
12-06-2005, 01:39 AM
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Re: s
[ QUOTE ]
I don't understand what you're saying here. Don't you want to be called down by 66? [/ QUOTE ] I was just saying that I was skeptical at the time whether or not a bet would only fold waeker ahnds that might bet later or get 3 bet by better ones - I was not assuming that 66 would call down. I guess I'm wrong though. I still don't think that my hand is very readable. If I were villain without an ace, I might very well fear a checkraise from a slowplayed ace hand on the turn - maybe even the river. It was the fact that he didn't fear the checkraise that made me a little scared at the river, although I would never fold that there.
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#3
12-06-2005, 01:24 AM
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Re: s
[ QUOTE ]
shant do you do this as your default against unknowns? what if they turn out to be a post-flop flush draw maniac or goes crazy with low pocket pairs on paired flops? we only have one overcard to worry about here so i dont really feel our hand is vulnerable. even with hearts we can hit a fat Q of hearts and destroy this guy. if villain checks on the turn or river ill be happy to fire but until then i dont mind being a calling station. am i missing something here that is keeping me from playing 4k/8k with doyle? [/ QUOTE ] I understand that the prospect of an unknown going nutso with a flush draw or a 5x hand is a possibility, but if he is truly that aggressive than he earned this pot from me and I will find better spots against him later. I just think the missed value, protection, deception, and unreadability is more important. Keep in mind I play a higher limit but I like responding to hands in all forums. You can decide for yourself if the pros of raising that I'm pushing are valuable at this limit.
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#4
12-06-2005, 01:32 AM
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Re: s
[ QUOTE ]
I just think the missed value, protection, deception, and unreadability is more important. [/ QUOTE ] I agree with this statement. True it is higher risk against an unknown, but in general you'll get called down often enough with worse hands. Also at this level, an ace will fire back allowing you to get rid of it before it gets too expensive, but the drawing hands will usually go into call down mode.
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#5
12-06-2005, 01:35 AM
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Re: s
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I just think the missed value, protection, deception, and unreadability is more important. [/ QUOTE ] I agree with this statement. True it is higher risk against an unknown, but in general you'll get called down often enough with worse hands. Also at this level, an ace will fire back allowing you to get rid of it before it gets too expensive, but the drawing hands will usually go into call down mode. [/ QUOTE ] i hate this reasoning. who is to say that at this level a flush draw doesnt fire back, or another hand you have outs against? the thing is, based on his hand range, we KNOW calling down is +ev folding when ahead is a million times worse than calling when behind here.
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#7
12-06-2005, 01:28 AM
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Re: s
[ QUOTE ]
I raise this flop. Smaller pairs are calling you down, and if they have an A you can get away from it without putting in 2BB on the bigger streets. Also, you'd never play an A like this if you had one, so you're just making yourself more readable by calling down here. When there is a flush draw on the flop the hand is not a WA/WB situation. You can't fold the river against an unknown. [/ QUOTE ] Spot on.
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#8
12-06-2005, 01:47 AM
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Re: s
[ QUOTE ]
I raise this flop. Smaller pairs are calling you down, and if they have an A you can get away from it without putting in 2BB on the bigger streets. Also, you'd never play an A like this if you had one, so you're just making yourself more readable by calling down here. When there is a flush draw on the flop the hand is not a WA/WB situation. You can't fold the river against an unknown. [/ QUOTE ] yeah i like the ol' 2+2 raise fold to a 3 bet on the flop. for the reasons the black guy mentioned
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#9
12-06-2005, 01:52 AM
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Re: s
your getting ~15 to 1 when you raise and he 3bets.
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#10
12-06-2005, 03:53 AM
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Re: s
[ QUOTE ]
your getting ~15 to 1 when you raise and he 3bets. [/ QUOTE ] Yes but if you are behind an ace, then you don't have the required 22-1 to catch a queen.
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