big draw against 3 aggressors

No, and I don't need 15 just 9. This is a good example of a dream situation 2 players have have top pair, one has on overpair and you have a great draw at a flush, trips, or gut shot straight. The odds clearly justify a call here.

[saxhoe]

They could easily have had set(takes away 5 outs) and someone a higher flushdraw (-9 outs)

[wdeadwyler]

[ QUOTE ]
huh, you folded a good flush drawn against 4 bettors with good odds and you think you played it right. I think you need to reconsider. You had pair of 4's not so good but 2 outs to trips, 3 outs to two pair, 9 outs to flush, and a back door straight draw which is another out or so, so you had 15 or so outs with two cards to go and 4 bettors. I can't fold here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Youre just plain wrong, this is a good fold. When action got back around to hero there was a bet and a massive raise, he cant assume all of his outs are clean here a good enough portion of the time and commit his stack. You just saw results and think you are right. You arent. The range that the villain is doing this with has hero smoked. Good fold, and dont post results next time.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
huh, you folded a good flush drawn against 4 bettors with good odds and you think you played it right. I think you need to reconsider. You had pair of 4's not so good but 2 outs to trips, 3 outs to two pair, 9 outs to flush, and a back door straight draw which is another out or so, so you had 15 or so outs with two cards to go and 4 bettors. I can't fold here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Youre just plain wrong, this is a good fold. When action got back around to hero there was a bet and a massive raise, he cant assume all of his outs are clean here a good enough portion of the time and commit his stack. You just saw results and think you are right. You arent. The range that the villain is doing this with has hero smoked. Good fold, and dont post results next time.

[/ QUOTE ]

well said

[kurto]

Correct... it was a good fold. I don't think its even close.

I don't agree when people say not to show the results. Don't show it in the first post... but every time we read one of these posts and analyze it; seeing the results helps us to confirm how our opponents play. Not to mention.. its just interesting. If someone asks me a riddle.. after I take a stab at it, I want to know the answer.

And to the guy who says to call... I take notes at people who call with a 6 high flush draw. They usually give away a lot of money.

[wdeadwyler]

[ QUOTE ]
Correct... it was a good fold. I don't think its even close.

I don't agree when people say not to show the results. Don't show it in the first post... but every time we read one of these posts and analyze it; seeing the results helps us to confirm how our opponents play. Not to mention.. its just interesting. If someone asks me a riddle.. after I take a stab at it, I want to know the answer.

And to the guy who says to call... I take notes at people who call with a 6 high flush draw. They usually give away a lot of money.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is what I meant, dont show results at first. After we exhuast analysis results are nice to have.

My interest in the results was to see if anyone had a flush draw, no one did. Two top pairs and overpair against a draw, thats 3 - 1 pot odds, even though at call time its 2-1 and the stacks are close. There must be a way to calculate the odds correctly so it would be 14 outs plus the back door straight plus full house minus counterfiet flush, two pair, straight. If we can establish the correct number of outs then you can determine if it's a good call or not, depending on the pot odds you would assume depending on whether or not the last caller would fold or not.

[ QUOTE ]
My interest in the results was to see if anyone had a flush draw, no one did. Two top pairs and overpair against a draw, thats 3 - 1 pot odds, even though at call time its 2-1 and the stacks are close. There must be a way to calculate the odds correctly so it would be 14 outs plus the back door straight plus full house minus counterfiet flush, two pair, straight. If we can establish the correct number of outs then you can determine if it's a good call or not, depending on the pot odds you would assume depending on whether or not the last caller would fold or not.

[/ QUOTE ]

IMHO, Establishing the actual number of outs is the hardest part of this situation and the reason why a fold is in order.

[ QUOTE ]
IMHO, Establishing the actual number of outs is the hardest part of this situation and the reason why a fold is in order.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe a better question is how many do you need, for three callers or 3-1 you need about 7 for two you need 9 then there is the small stack size issue, but here you have 14 + backdoor draws - counterfeit draws, so I'm getting out my small stakes book and reviewing the discussion on this.

[11t]

Push and hope you are up against two sets/two pair combinations.

EDIT: NVM thought you had 65d. Muck this.